Where did chavismo's normal go?
Juan Cristobal's last post - particularly that one-liner about there being "no one normal left in chavismo" - made a few people in the comments section, myself included, pretty uncomfortable.
Of course, I'm in no position to go around casting first stones when it comes to flipping my shit over something crazy Chávez just said and lashing out with a post I probably wouldn't have written otherwise. These things happen. I'm pretty sure Juan'll be the first to admit that post came from the gut more than the head.
But that still leaves the question: did Juan commit a "gaffe" - an involuntary expression of unpalatable truth - or did he just plain old put his foot in his mouth? And, come to think of it, what exactly happened to chavismo's sense of normality? Where did it go?
I think the difficulty has to do with chavismo's dual status as both a political movement and something that more and more ressembles a millenarian cult.
While chavismo as a political movement clearly includes millions of normal, sane, decent people who for one reason or another - from gratefulness for social programs to a deep disgust towards the old elite to a general sense that "people like me vote for Chávez" - support the regime, the not-terribly-comfortable reality is that those aren't the people who now govern Venezuela. In order to get into a position of political influence and power within the state chavismo has wrought, you need to be a fully signed up member of the Chávez Cult. And while the chavista movement has plenty of normal in it, the Chávez Cult has banished it from its ranks.
We must not mince words here: the structure of belief of the Chávez Cult is not normal. We've gone over it in this blog a million times, but it bears repeating:
- The earnest belief that what is at stake here is "saving the world".
- The determination to create a "new man" freed from normal human failings.
- The belief in an earthly utopia that's just around the corner but can only be attained once the cult's foes have been crushed.
- The literal - not figurative - demonization of those foes.
- The sincere expectation that every single bad thing that happens happens because evil people have conspired to make it happen.
- The belief in the mystical power of those enemies and the unidimensional assertion of their unalloyed evil.
- The dualistic structure that arises from splitting the world between two neat, clearly delineated, unambiguously incompatible groups: one that's completely good, pure and virtuous ("us") and another that's unambiguously evil, dirty, vicious out-group ("them").
- The general indifference, indeed contempt, towards any fact that cannot be reconciled with that dualistic structure.
These are not "political" views in any intelligible sense of that word. This is the belief system of a cult. It's a way of organizing an understanding of reality that rests not on a set of social beliefs or on a collection of class interests but rather on a metaphysics of conviction: the conviction that you are personally called on to take part in the ultimate, epoch-defining struggle between good and evil and that you will, in the end, be victorious.
And no, it's not normal. Relativism is deeply misplaced here. Governments that treat politics as a transcendent battle between good and evil are bound to devolve into murderous violence, because the structure of their belief systems demand it.
After all, if you were truly, intimately convinced that you were fighting, literally, to save humanity from evil and usher in an era of universal peace, brotherhood and good will, and that the only thing delaying utopia was the opposition of a devilish fringe of wreckers, wouldn't you pull that trigger?
Of course you would.
Of course you would.
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I'm thinking about normalcy
I'm pondering the best way to respond to this issue. Did I insert my foot in my mouth? Do I stand by what I said? Retreat, or reaffirm?
But then I read your post, and you're basically saying that people who follow a cult, who actually go out of their way and march and vote FOR a cult, are somehow ... normal!
Seems like you made my point for me.
Trouble is, "ignorant" is pretty "normal"
Well, I can easily see how millions of people vote for Chávez without any intention of supporting the Chávez Cult, simply because they're not really cognizant of it. After all, if there's one thing we know for sure it's that, in politics, ignorance is the most normal state of all.
Sounds mighty condescending to me
I know plenty of ignorant people in Venezuela who understand you don't develop a country by eliminating private property and by shutting down TV stations, who understand that a country so abundant in energy going through rolling blackouts can only be expolained because someone in the government didn't do their job.
Sorry, there's ignorant, and then there's chavista.
Plenty of people who support Chávez are not "chavistas", Juan!
Remember this guy?
A story from Lara
V., a lady who worked at home when I was a child came from a tiny village in Lara, a village you don't see in a normal map. She worked ironing, washing, stuff like that. She became very good friends with my family.
Afterwards V. married, went to live in El Tocuyo, in Lara, close to her village (just two hours by 4x4). Her only studies were a couple of years of basic school in a "school" that was the most primitive thing you can imagine.
I was recently talking to her sister, E, who did not study more than her but who has been living in the North of Valencia. She is anti-chavista to the core.
I asked E. about their village. She told me how it was a forgotten place in the middle of nowhere (my bro has been there and he says the same). The "school" was just some benches for all, a rotten adobe house.
What has happened in the last 11 years? That school was renovated. It is a nice building now. Nothing more has happened there, there is a tiny "primeros auxilios" micro-room the school. There is a micromercal, where their cousin sells the products that come from Tocuyo. There is a van bought with some Mercal-like help.
Nothing more has happened in that village for decades (apart from people having lots of kids and moving out to the cities).
There has been a huge increase in violence in the area around Tocuyo and the village, some of their relatives have been shot.
E. asked her elder sister (one of a lot, you won't believe how many they are) "echando broma, así..." if she was still supporting "el proceso". V., who is the sweetest lady you would see, became angry and answered: "E, if U (her husband) does not work, we don't get money at home".
Her children, most with names that start with "Y", have got some sort of beca at one time or the other, but mostly they have come around by working as they can.
They have no cable or Internet, that I know of. They don't usually buy any newspaper (that is the norm in Venezuela) unless they have to see something very special and then it is usually the local one about some ads.
They certainly see there are lots of rotten things and they feel the insecurity, but they doubt the oppo would do something better. Why should they?
The only thing they know about the local opposition is that there are a bunch of local guys who want to become new oppo leaders in the area. I don't have any idea what process they follow to become representatives of AD or PJ or UNT in the area. They don't have any plan, any ideology, just this "por la democracia thing". Those would-like-minicaudillos are usually associated with parties that never cared for them.
We are talking here about people in El Tocuyo and a village. El Tocuyo is a city by world (not urban Venezuelan) definitions, it has over 100 thousand people.
The situation does not only happen there. I know of similar cases in carlos Arvelo Municipality, which is the region to the Southeast of Valencia (half an hour by car) or Libertador
(Southeast). People there have similar stories. Many even come from such rural areas and get close to the metropolis but only as far as they can afford.
What does the opposition have to say?
They could say a lot and people are actually waiting them to say something. But first the opposition groups have to think a bit and create a proposal, some story. They will have to come with more than slogans.
And they will have to show some genuine interest.
Hugo is certainly a very destructive little bastard, but for those poor people he seems more genuine...and that is probably true if compared to some leaders I know of in the opposition. That is why many people, ignorant, but not even more than others, have still opted at the last minute to support the local chavista guy or support chavismo in general.
The mass and the individual
Quico wrote:
“The belief in an earthly utopia that's just around the corner but can only be attained once the cult's foes have been crushed.”
This reminds of a Russian joke of the Soviet era:
“A speaker tells his listeners, "The communist ideal is already on the horizon."The audience wonders quietly, "What IS a horizon?" Answer: an imaginary line where the sky comes together with the earth; it moves off when you try to get closer.”
Juan, I don’t think that what Quico wrote (as well as his Converse cite) was condescending. In any event, I’m no social psychologist, but I always found it disturbingly fascinating that the most effective way to move the masses (anywhere in the world) is by focusing on the lowest common denominator. That’s how political ads and propaganda work. Constantly repeat a simplistic but emotionally charged messsage. The irony is that if you pluck away an individual out of this mass and talk to him for several minutes, more than likely he would seem like a normal and reasonable chap. But mass dynamics is something else.
better placed on this thread both head and gut
Babao and all ya'll
" the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent bear it away"
You say:
"We all know somebody who is a chavista, and I would hesitate to think of all of them as abnormal."
Then let's be a little dispassionate here as you say you like to be.The fact that you or I know someone who is Chavista and a nice guy or whatever is precisely beside the point.Being a nice guy and /or intelligent, does not exclude the fact that she/he might have an abnormal or unhealthy aspect in their character that hooks them to Chavismo.
It is my opinion from an attempted objective view of my friends and family that this is quite so- not that all of us don't have areas of abnormality because we all do...however the specific abnormalities that lead to the Chavez cult are present in Chavistas..otherwise they would not be hooked into such a damaging movement.
I think it is a matter of head,AND gut....
Not a foot in mouth comment
I read both Juan's earlier post and the comments that followed with interest.
On the one hand, having read this blog and it's earlier version for some time now, at first I was not taken aback by Juan's comment regarding Chavismo. Having read both JC and Quico for a while now, I did not ascribe to JC a new found desire to hate those who think differently from him.
I sensed a great frustration fueled by a thought like: "Why don't they (chavismo) get it?" "How can they ignore the damage being done?" running through it, as opposed to a sudden descent into the very attitude that defines the way true chavista believers think about us.
On the other hand, there is no question that the same attitude is pretty well represented in many oppositionists. A quick glance of comment boards such as N24 is enough to prove that point.
What is extremely hard, is to avoid falling into that same level of diatribe and insult that colors many chavista's thinking and expression. It's as hard as having to watch a somewhat functioning Democracy get killed using the very structures it depends on, a political ju-jitsu if you will, and still call yourself sane at the end of the day. When really deep down you just want to slap them upside the head and make them UNDERSTAND that which at some level one feels they are deliberately ignoring because the alternative is too scary for them to contemplate.
Consciously, most sane people know that slapping upside the head only works on TV. In real life, what it does is cause deafness in the very person you are trying to reach.
Juan, your post, in its entirety, is nothing you should be ashamed of. Your comment regarding the sanity or normality of those who follow Mr. Chavez, in my opinion, was not the best thing you've written by far, but it does show you are human, after all. (Not that I ever doubted that).
Isn't that Democracy ??
The comment about what is happening in US politics, as well as Chavex abilities to control a country, regardless of the fact that we believe he is completely incapable of running a bodega, has brought me to what may be a simple conclusion.
Democracy is meant to be a participation led initiative to govern society. We all have a say and supposedly a majority decides for the rest.
Not too different from the system implemented in this forum - as the system has developed the majority may be in the process of being drowned by the extremes. I am using this forum as an example, only because the the new format assumes that participation allows for higher visibility given different weight to those opinions. Meaning you participate or are drowned out.
As democracy developed many people participated but as time has passed, it may be in the process of being abused. Those in the extremes (let it be left, right or crazy ) have strong convictions and dedicate larger amount of time to push the system towards their own beliefs. Meanwhile the majority just wants to keep a normal life. Normal probably implying let me go on my day to day as I do not believe in either of those extremes. But they are not participating - they are not voicing their discontent - their beliefs are not radical therefore does not take them to the streets, to the forums, to the relevant media. I think this is a true in the US as it is in Venezuela.
Those at the extremes have learned the lessons - vote makes you democratic - no one is really checking if the voting is reflective of the reality - and that applies from the US to Iran, Cuba, Zinbawe and Venezuela. Well he was elected ! many claim and therefore must be legitimate......
Sometimes I believe that there should be a body within the UN that conducts voting around the world - it would strengthen the sovereignty of those voting although may weaken current governments. But alas a fundamental change like that would be similar to changing from the Feudal system to democracy - took many many many years.
If the ni-nis, in Venezuela, US or elsewhere do not realize that they need to participate in order to have a democracy and that their voices should be loud - we will continue hearing the extremes and even at some point believing that there is a majority out there that truly believes in their point of view ...
a cult?
Reading Quico's post, the situation of politics in the United States comes to mind, where a fringe of "abnormals' (Abe Normals?) has managed to sequester public discourse to the point of making even Obama "strut like a peacock", to use Krugman's phrase.
What bothers me here is the possibility that politics really is the field of those mad people. Wasn't "Democracy" a lunacy by the end of the XVIIIth century? and religion, an institution often itself at odds with mysticism, is nothing but the same social strictures applied to a relationship onto the external or to the eternal fear of death.
Perhaps it is not "ignorance" the operative word in this case, but simplicity or simple thoughts, granted, a step prior to ignorance, but a situation that calls for a very human trait, that of being able not to do. Which, in this case, would be to dig in and find a better understanding.
Interesting literary flourish
Quico: After all, if you were truly, intimately convinced that you were fighting, literally, to save humanity from evil and usher in an era of universal peace, brotherhood and good will, and that the only thing delaying utopia was the opposition of a devilish fringe of wreckers, wouldn't you pull that trigger?
Of course you would.
Of course you would.
That'll do, Toro.
That'll do.
(No, I'm not calling Quico a pig.)
That was a pretty good post that summarizes everything that's wrong with Chavismo in particular and the modern world in general.
By the way, we're less than 6 months away from the start of World War III. Have a happy end of the world, everyone :) and don't forget to wear clean underwear, so when you have to kiss your ass goodbye, you don't get your mouth dirty.
I'm with Juan
Nice if you want better social programs, justice for all, not a return to la cuarta...
If you are -who isn't?- for any of this, you CAN NOT be chavista.
Yes, chavismo has become a cult, or better yet, a group of high robbers. They really commit high treason.
I doubt that we will have the resilience to -many years from now- bring all of them to justice and impose really long sentences. No, I don't think that death penalty is good thing
If you want a better country, organize yourself. Look for alternatives, do whatever you want, but please don't call yourself chavista.
I'm with Juan...no one normal left there!
Ignorance is the problem
Yes, Quico's comment sounds condescending, but at risk of sounding arrogant (too) I agree that ignorance is the real problem. The majority of people know very little about our system of governance and about their constitutional rights. Most people do not have the ability to weight the gravity of the violations made by Chavez and his collaborators. People see the violations, but most believe that the "good" things Chavez is doing (Barrio Adentro or Mercal) outweigh the "little" excesses that the government commits. It's all ignorance. I have asked educated people (with university degrees) if they understand why there's an electricity crisis in the country, and I've come to realize that most of them don't have a clue. They'd believe anything the government says because they don't have a clue. As this happens to be an area that I thoroughly understand, it scares me to death to recognize how easily the government can distort and manipulate the information to convince most of the population that the crisis is caused by drought. This is a government that recognized how easy it is to deceive and manipulate the masses and it is willing to go as far as necessary without any remorse, even if this causes irreparable damage to the country.
Quico: You left out an important characteristic of Chavez Cult
And it is a characteristic that affects the present and future of all Venezuelans: Opposition, Chavistas and Ni-Nis alike:
One thing is to believe you and your followers are the only good ones, and it's very bad if you govern with that attitude. But if you also add the sense that you are beyond the constraints imposed by the economy, them everybody will suffer the consequences... which is what it is happening right now.
Check, for instance, the video you attached to the post at:
http://www.caracaschronicles.com/node/2295
In that video we can see that, for Chavez, to take down the interest rates is a matter of socialist convictions, goodwill and nice intentions, instead of the result of fiscal discipline and effective inflation control measures.
That is a trait I have found in all my Chavista friends (quite a few, by the way): The law of offer and demand is a machiavellian capitalistic invention, fiscal discipline is an evil FMI imposition, Dutch disease is a fancy neoliberal lie, etc, etc... it is like trying to explain gravity to medieval, aristotelic monks...
But in the end, gravity affects us all, whether you "believe" in it or not, and that is what's happening to Venezuela right now.
Thanks Dago
"That is a trait I have found in all my Chavista friends (quite a few, by the way): The law of offer and demand is a machiavellian capitalistic invention, fiscal discipline is an evil FMI imposition, Dutch disease is a fancy neoliberal lie, etc, etc... it is like trying to explain gravity to medieval, aristotelic monks..."
Um yeah, people who think like that are ... not normal!
Those people are the middle-ranking
I would say a big subset of chavista users, say 40-50% of voters in Maturín, half of those in municipality Juan José Mora,
30% of those in Vargas are not thinking at this level. They are thinking: who is telling or giving us something concrete?
That the opposition is not even telling them concrete stories is, I think, an issue we have to solve. Honestly.
And don't call those people mad for demanding that.
I would like them to do something on their own
It seems to me that there's also a different kind of problem here. The way you're painting it, these people are waiting for something to roll their way. I'd like to see them think critically and make their own way.
At this point, it can't just be: I'll vote for Chavez because, frankly there's nothing else. I'd prefer that they just stay home if they don't like the opposition and try to organize and solve their own problems at a lower level.
That will take much more time
And frankly, they are very similar to many people who are "on our side", they just happened to be on the other side of the fence or neighbourhood, the ones did not lose their jobs while some of the ones on our side are exactly like them but did lose their jobs.
Do we expell those on our side because we know they are just betting on our horse on the hope of getting a job at a government office or something?
This is not about distributing sweeties, just about showing leadership with content.
Expel? Sweeties?
I think you're reading or inferring too much into what I write. We were simply discussing what these people should be doing. Naturally the opposition needs to show leadership, talk to those in need, find out what are the problems and propose some nice solutions. But that's not what I'm writing about.
What I'm trying to convey is that just because the opposition isn't going to those places doesn't give them an excuse to vote for Chavez, "Just Because no one else is here". To me it's not right to say: "The opposition has no message, so I'll just follow Chavez's message, mad as it is." Don't follow the bad message in the absence of good messages, stay at home or make up your own good message.
I am getting over judging
Sure they should be doing it, but don't count on it.
Many people are not doing what they should. We all, to some extent, some time.
I am referring to what we can do under these circumstances.
I see it a bit differently, Dago...
I think you're right, but I'd express it a bit differently:
The thing is that the standard laws of economics dispense with intentions altogether. The whole point of the "invisible hand" metaphore is that nobody has to Will capitalism to work for it to work. And what's most distinctive about the Economist's way of thinking is a deep conviction that results are independent of intentions, that sometimes very well intentioned policies have very bad results, and very questionably intentioned policies have very good results.
Chavismo can't accept any of that. When prices rise, that is because evil people put up prices. When the government takes over a business, good results are thought to follow automatically, almost definitionally, from the good, selfless, socialist intentions that motivate the move.
But I see that as a result of the dualistic structure of the belief structure: evil happens because there are evil people around, and the things that evil people do are evil by virtue of the essense of the people doing them, not by virtue of what they are in themselves. And good things happen because there are good people around, and the things that good people do are good by virtue of the essense of the people doing them, not by virtue of what they are in themselves.
Dualism runs deep, much much deeper than economic rationality.
Dagoberto, Very well said
Somehow, people want to believe that if the politicians pass a law, they can make water run uphill.
Education? Ignorance? The real problem is...
And I see no one has managed to latch onto this...LACK OF CRITICAL THINKING in governing your actions.
We make comments about how ignorant the poor are, how they need education. The government still has pull with these people because they don't know any better. We need to teach them how to fend for themselves, to solve their own problems. All well and good. But as we all know good education doesn't mean you don't succumb to the Chavista Cult. I'm pretty sure a lot of you know more than one university degree level person that has dunked their head into the Kool-Aid barrel. And you're astounded.
Why why why these educated people, who are brilliant in their fields, who should know better, can't see through Chavez's shenanigans?
LACK OF CRITICAL THINKING.
Education is only the beginning of knowledge. Experience brings wisdom. But what puts it together, to make sure you don't get duped, that you do proper investigation, that weigh in all the variables, filter the facts and evidence from the dung, is CRITICAL THINKING. That isn't taught in schools or universities at a general level. That's something you need to cultivate on your own.
To me, at this point, anyone drinking the Chavez Kool-Aid lacks abilities in critical thinking or for one reason or another has decided not to apply them.
Education as I see it includes critical thinking
I am not talking about degrees. I am talking about upbringing with some basic background about where we all come from, about what it takes to plan, a training on analyzing concrete problems, on how to discover fallacies, a practice on asking "why" and more "why", some reference about how things are elsewhere, the desire to be curious.
Those things are not completely innate. They are mostly taught or strengthened early within families and then at basic school.
The practice of conformism and the easy way are instead what children get most of the time in those families.
Of course, there are also those who have grown up in families with a huge brain washing from early on. You recognise them in Venezuela mostly by their names: Yuri, Vladimir, Fidel. The first group, I think, is much larger.
They are not stupider. They by far grew in a more negative environment.
Oh how we wish it were so...
It SHOULD include it but in practice almost never does. If it did, you would see far less people drinking the Kool-Aid.
The modern definition of Education is usually the formal one. And that's the one generally everyone understands. The expression "Get an Education" usually means, get a degree, finish high-school, learn a profession. Tools that will help you get a job, make a living at the professional level, rather than at the lower "Craftsmen" level. And really that's the one nearly everyone in Venezuela understands when you say education.
Tools for Critical Thinking are different from what I consider Education. I keep them separate because it's not clear to me that current functioning educational institutions (at ALL levels) promote critical thinking in their curricula.
Terminology problem then
We agree then. Still, the problem in Venezuela is much much more accute than anything I have seen in Europe and according to some US Americans, than what they have seen in their places.
Rote learning at school and conformism as a way to fit are more widespread in Venezuela.
Of course, there are many causes for chavismo. There were some chavistas among my extended family where one brother was chavista, the other not.
Kepler
Critical Thinking
Hear hear FoxTrot!
I've seen 14 yr. old bagboys with critical thinking skills. I've noted (from up close) state senators with 3 degrees who never could quiet connect the dots on a problem. Some of it's bell-curve related, but mostly I think it's experience. Meaning my 14 yr. bagboy oft has more real-life understanding than my cacooned state senator.
Degrees = Formula
Critical Thinking = Word Problems
/me hatez word problems :)
this post undermines plain old opportunism
there's a lot of chavistas that are not cultish. they know chavez is a bit crazy. but,even then, this is the opportunity of their lifetime to get rich and be powerful. if all chavistas were cultish things would be much worse by know.
We already included the crooks
We're just dealing with the rest of the people. In any case, there's an argument to made that greedy opportunists that are willing to harm their fellow man for riches and power aren't normal.
And then we'll just regress and start arguing about just WHAT is supposed to be normal in society.
not easy
Have you ever really, really believed in something or someone?
I think many Venezuelans experienced, perhaps for the first time in their lives, so much hope when Chavez came to power. Imagine feeling this way...and then dedicating yourself to his revolution, working for it, attending community meetings, helping your uncle get eye surgery in Cuba, receiving medical care for the first time in your barrio, being a part of something bigger than yourself.
How hard would it be to admit the revolution has failed?
It would be really hard, even when the evidence was all around you. Even when that medical clinic had closed. Even when your community meetings had deteriorated into finger-pointing. Even when your lights went out without any notice.
It's not just that people are being asked to give up on one man -- they're being asked to question their core beliefs, re-evaluate the last ten years of working for the revolution, examine whether rifts with non-Chavista friends and family were, perhaps, mistakes after all.
They're being asked to give up hope.
Not easy.
That's perhaps why "the people around Chavez" have been such a convenient target. You don't have to ask yourself hard questions, you get to vent some of your anger (those crooks!)...you don't have to give up hope (if only he'd get some honest people in there, things would be OK).
Very right
and that is why V, the usually very kind Larense woman, told in an angry voice to her sister, E, that they don't eat if her husband loses his job.
Still, she may still vote for chavismo or simply not vote.
I am sure we could win her support and that of others if we elected leaders with a genuine interest in them and some sort of vision.
There are people like that. The opposition mass has to find and support them, promote them, away from the brontosauri and new selfish caudillos who have been stealing the attention so far.
Very thoughtful response
Damn, lucia, you put us to shame.
You're mostly right. You're also way more patient and empathetic than I am at this point. And I'm not sure even an articulate message like this one would work.
Lucia is right on point
JC's theories apply only to the elite (and hard core chavistas) as Quico pointed out, but the reality is that Chavez brought the great majority of Venezuelans the opportunity to have "one of their own" rule the roost. The problem, as most of you know, is that the great majority of Venezuelans are not well educated, a bit "thuggish" by nature, and used to a short term horizon where surviving one more day is all that is needed to be satisfied (hence the insanely high levels of "happiness" in the country -- as reported by a whole bunch of surveys).
And, who's to say that "happiness" is not all that matters?
We can rationalize from our pedestal all we want, we can foresee the doom that lies ahead, we can criticize the "pan y circo" scheme; but in the end, that great majority of Venezuelans is only worried about getting that free Chinese fridge.
Lucia, chapeau!
Bravo Lucia!
Very well said.
Lucia's point makes it clearer than ever that the Opposition need to provide an alternative message of (dare I say it?) "Hope". This message needs to be simple and explicit. Something like:
"I pledge before God and the People of Venezuela, as an elected official, all of my official decisions and actions shall be guided by the following principles:
- RESPECT for all of the people of Venezuela and for the Constitution of the Republic.
- TRANSPARENCY in all public dealings and decision making.
- EQUALITY of rights, benefits, and responsibilities for all Venezuelans.
If it could be manipulated (without losing the content and meaning) to make a really clever and meaningful acronym, it would be even better.
Use the KISS principle (Keep it Simple Stupid). But here is the kicker. Whatever it is, they have to MEAN it. They have to embrace it and believe in it with the same fervor that the people believed in Chavez. If they don't believe in it themselves, it will no be believed by the people.
The Opposition has be ABOUT something; not just AGAINST Chavez. That is a formula for yet another defeat.
Lucia's speech
Lucia,
First of all a few speeches by oppo leaders stating what you just stated, (which is very much on the mark by the way) could be very useful.Honesty goes a long way in pulling heart strings and opening minds.
Careful there, Kepler
"V., a lady who worked at home when I was a child came from a tiny village in Lara, a village you don't see in a normal map."
A "normal" map. I'm trying to decide how to respond to this. Do I write a post of my own about it? Do I leave a comment here? Did you mean to hurt Venezuelan mapmakers or was yours simply a gaffe in the heat of the moment? I think it may have to do with the duality of cartography in Venezuela which injects its polity into geography. You see, too often we forget that maps, even maps of Venezuela, are normal maps too. Sometimes they have unique names for places, like Kerepakupai merú or Parakupa-vena instead of Angel falls. But it makes it no less a map! Wouldn't you substitute the indigenous name for the imperialist label? And perhaps include that little village missing from the "normal" map?
Of course you would. Of course you would.
I just meant a small village
:-)
I did not want to hurt feelings.
First I did not find it in here:
http://www.amazon.com/Venezuela-Map-Travel-Reference/dp/0921463596/ref=s...
Then I did not find it anywhere on an online map.
I finally used Google Earth, where you see the caserío in the middle of the mountains
right
...mine was just a poor attempt at humor after a couple of beers.
"The dualistic structure that
"The dualistic structure that arises from splitting the world between two neat, clearly delineated, unambiguously incompatible groups: one that's completely good, pure and virtuous ("us") and another that's unambiguously evil, dirty, vicious out-group ("them"). "
Hmmmm, Quico, this sounds surprisingly similar to the way you and other oppos view Venezuela.
Chavismo has no razon de ser, or justification. It is just a group of "bad" people who have a messed up way of seeing the world... right?
In fact, this whole post is a great example of what you described up above. You are describing how the Chavez Cult is a clearly defined group that has the above characteristics. I'm not sure you could be more hypocritical if you tried.
completely off topic - The Chavez Movie?
sorry to drop in a off topic question but,
remember when Chavez was in Italy walking the red carpet and drinking tequila with Michael Moore etc promoting the Oliver Stone 'documentary'?
Has that film been released anywhere? I haven't seen it on the streets, can't even seen to download a pirate copy. At the time I was waiting to at least see it before badmouthing, but it seems to have dropped off the radar.
Has anyone seen it? Does it exist anywhere? Or was it just a excuse to send his highness to Italy and stay in 5 star hotels?
Does anyone know any cultists that might have seen it?
Just something I thought of today
cults
Venezuela is governed by a cult.
Britain is governed by a Celt.
Italy is governed by a c***.