Gaddafi passed on Turiamo

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There are conflicting news reports about the fate of Muammar Gaddafi. Some say he has been injured and captured. Others say he has died. Regardless, he’s toast. [Update: yeah, he’s dead.]

It’s worth remembering that Gaddafi was offered the very real possibility of exile in Venezuela. Right now, he could have been lying comfortably in the tent the Bolivarian government would have surely helped set up for him in Turiamo Naval Base, looking at the majestic view of the Aragua shoreline, sipping batido de parchita, and enjoying a well-deserved retirement.

But no. He passed on that. He decided to stay, and “fight.”

Let’s keep that in mind, because if  he has been killed, some in the international community will surely decry the fact that he should have faced a court of law. People who have never been involved in a gunfight will criticize from the sidelines, griping about how the Libyan rebels did not ensure his human rights.

Bah. Whatever his fate is, Gaddafi chose it. His thousands of victims never had that chance.

1 COMMENT

  1. His pic has been shown, he’s dead, toast. If they caught his second hand man which is rumored, that’s just as well (as far as a trial and justice is concerned). He was practically the leader of the armed forces and was just as culpable as Gaddafi. Being rid of Gaddafi himself allows the healing process to happen sooner. Lots of celebrating in Libya today, a good day indeed.

    Wonder how Caracas will be when Chavez becomes worm food…

  2. ajem… not in argaua, i beg to differ. he would have been sipping his passion fruit juice inside a tent in hato piñero which chiabe so gracioulsy donated to the libyan satrap..

  3. Mr. Kepler, A very insightfullized observation there. Re article: surely, one has query that ‘well deserved’ choice? Re courts & defendant’s rights etc, I think the court preference is grounded in its being a convenient and public platform for airing all the crimes. Now, ostensbly — Charon’s latest crossing remains unconfirmed — with Moammar’s departure from the scene, they will fade sepia-coloured into the gathering mists of time and be largely forgotten. Myself, I’d be on the ‘ggod riddance’ group, if only because, without his definite capture, the Libyan conflict would smoulder on.

  4. Liberator’s sword recipients, and especially doublers, as Mugabe, are required to agree to keep the sword always respectfully mounted and pointed towards Miraflores; their accepatnce also entails their primising to return the — now second-hand — sword if freedom sprouts within a radius of 500km so the Libya-based sword ought by rights to be in a FEDEX Box enroute to Venezuela by now for subsequent presentation to yet another deserving head-of-state, prefereably with failing eyesight, against the eventuality of there being scratches on it.

  5. There’s enough residual catholicism in me to make it very hard to feel “good” about somebody’s death. This comes close, though I can’t help but feel that the humiliation of trial and imprisonment would’ve been far worse for him than this. In that sense, it’s too bad.

    • The Catholic Church allows the rejoicing over a death such as this one. El mal menor, lo llaman. Don’t feel guilty, this is a good thing. Think of how many people he would have killed if he had been allowed to die in his sleep safely in power.

      Besides, he’s no victim. He chose this.

          • Juan, -the document is too long and boring for my taste- I’ll take your word for it my dear!!!
            I’m not catholic, maybe I’m residual… (the term is catchy); pero me dejé de pistoladas hace tiempo, I not only feel good about it, I’m ecstatic. Brincando en una pata pues.

          • Liz, and are you Christian?
            I forgot…US evangelicals and those evangelized by them have developed this feeling for that in the last decades, book of Joshua etc. “vengeance be done.”, this rediscovered compulsion to go rather to the initial part of the Old Testament and selective view of the New Testament.

            Not for nothing did Rumsfeld do this:
            http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8056207.stm

            Gaddafi was a big criminal and I am not sorry he is dead. But rejoice?
            The regime was gone already. I was almost sure the only reason for resistance in Sirte was him being there, but now we won’t be able to put him to trial, which would have been a better way against other tyrants.

            The killing of a dictator is the norm and it hasn’t prevented other dictators coming. A humilliated dictator under trial would be a better and more permanent warning against others.

          • Kepler, do not read too much into this. It’s not as complicated as you think. I’m in my 50’s… at this age I could care less about religion, or lo que piensen los demás.
            I’m just not hypocritical or diplomatic anymore.
            So, I state openly my mind in any place or forum.
            In my book, this feeling has nothing to do with religion. I’m just happy about it, who’s to say that I shouldn’t feel this way?
            I dunno what to think of your comment… it’s OK for me if you don’t agree with my opinion. But the whole discussion about my possible ‘evangelical’ or gringo motives left me in the dark.
            Again, no te enrolles buscándole otra pata al gato. Soy maluca con Gadafi y no me da pena decirlo publicamente.

          • Quico, no harm done. Now we know that as Catholics we can rejoice in the mal menor.

            BTW, and OT, I cannot rate comments today 🙁 it’s one of my fave things to do here! Maybe the site is misbehaving just for today.

          • Liz, it has more links than what you realise. I do know a lot of evangelicals and extra conservative Christians in Venezuela and the pattern is very very similar when it comes to these news. Of course, another issue would be whether one thing causes the other or they are more of the same.

            As I said: Gaddafi was a disgusting murderer and it’s fine he’s dead. I find it pretty useless to rejoice on his death. I would rejoice more if democracies were more consequent with the people they support.

            If anything, I would have liked him to be in prison to see Chávez saying for a longer period of time more idiocies in Gaddafi’s favour, which would have contributed more in making more people feel repulsed by Chávez. Now it will be a couple of references like with Reyes and that will be all.

          • Kepler, ya, ya.. no te lo tomes tan a pecho. It’s just my take in the subject. Let me be happy for it!
            Look no further for convoluted theories about fanatical Christians, I’m guessing a bit of a prejudice against the gringos and evangelicals on your part -for some time now…. Try to take people for their face value. And lighten up a bit!

          • One doesn’t have to read church-written documents: the commandment, supposedly written by The One Upstairs Himself, says Thou shall not kill, not Thou shall not kill unless it’s a Libyan dictator. It’s cathegoric and has no hues. Anything else is arguing and justification, and rejoicing about it is not all-right. But then again, there are almost no catholics out there, just people who take what they wish from the package and call it catholicism. This is not catholicism.
            That said, and personally oblivious of The Word, ¡cajón y flores con ese muerto!

          • Oh, boy! That document in that site Catholic was produced basically within the context of the invasion of Iraq for oil by selecting the convenient pieces they could find from Catholic papers and isolated snippets of the Bible (which they wisely explain to people who really never read the Bible, even if they do have a nice edition at home, much less critical literature on it). Never mind a lot of statements uttered by the Vatican at that time.

            Juan, you better be a bit more honest. I am not the one mixing religion with politics. I do point out at the way religion is being used by your interest groups to justify about anything. The pattern is clear about who in religious spectrum goes for the extremes in every war.

            Better to be honest and say one’d rather see Gaddafi dead. I don’t mourn him and can understand why people may feel happy about him, but consider as someone said here the real task was previously done, Sirte was taken and the death of this particular guy is not a big deal once he was neutralized. It’s a pity there won’t be a trial to let Chávez talk and talk and talk and blame himself further.

            Here from a site you will also appreciate:
            http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80875,00.html

            Don’t mix politics and religion? My foot. You guys do it all the time and don’t even realise it.

          • Remember that religion is political! look at Texas, according to its state constitution you cannot hold public office if you do not believe in god (I wonder if any god would count? Go Mithra!)…

          • Fombona,
            You are probably right: religion has always been deeply political. Still, we would expect in the XXI century that no matter what religion or non religion people had they would try to be aware of how political figures use their fears and hopes about the afterlife to gain/keep power.
            Does Texas’ governor really need to believe in (a) God? Are you kidding me? Is Texas a theocracy and the governor some sort of Ayatollah?

    • I’m with you, Quico, on feeling good about G’s death. But maybe I”m hypocritical, since I didn’t really mind hearing about it on the radio, yet seeing the dead upper torso on al Jazeera was not a good feeling.

      But G also delved in hypocrisy, when his only comment, on being found by the revolutionary forces, was: “Don’t shoot.”

      Can you imagine? The man who lambasted thousands of innocents with shell fire pleads for his life.

        • I am not a believer God, as many know him,but from what Ihave read God’s Will is a powerful part of the hour of death according to many Christians.If one believes in divine justice, does not one rejoice in it?Besides what do any of us know about the Will on the omniscient?

          On another note, death can be a relief from suffering, for which we can quite nicely rejoice at times.My grandmother died of pneumonia , aged 96, and breathing had been hard from some time…I felt an amazing relief to see her go, and I loved her very much.

          Do you not question the happiness of an evil man?

    • “There’s enough residual catholicism in me to make it very hard to feel “good” about somebody’s death.”

      Even if it is God’s Will?

        • It matters not what my take is Liz, I was referring to residual Catholicism, and its ideas on rejoicing or not..

          I find it disconcerting and odd that on one hand we profess a belief in God, and then reject death in such a way as to question its lack of Divine Will.

          • Ah, OK. I see the point of your comment.
            I just don’t think that Divine Will has to do with everything here on earth, but that’s material for an endless discussion Cerdita.

          • Liz,Yes, conversation that could extend into infinity really….next some will be searching for the sword as though it were the Holy Grail, and we will retake this futile conversation…..religion and politics somehow don’t mix except some folks are now mixing them, so it seems at times one must put in one’s 2 cents, as it were…even in jest.

  6. Sometime about a couple months ago, there was a post or a comment that predicted Gaddafi would flee Libya, amid speculation that he would end up in Venezuela. At that time, I predicted that Gaddafi would go down with his ship rather than flee. Turns out, I was right, but that is not the point.

    Gaddafi stayed because he was not in it solely for personal gain. In his own twisted medieval way, he did the honorable thing. If/when the time comes, I won’t make the same prediction for HFC. He will flee with the rats, because he has no honor. Not even a perverted obsolete sort of honor.

  7. Copy-editors of the world: rejoice! You won’t have to struggle with his name ever again.

    Gaddafi, Ghadafi, Qadafi, Khadafi… good riddance!

  8. Re residual Catholicism: such charity does credit to the practitiioner but The Nazarene Carpenter also mentioned that resorting to swords is a dangerous undertaking: Matt’s narrative (26.52) of the episode when Pete resorts to his sword runs: “for all that take the sword shall perish with the sword” so the probable demise in battle was foretold at the highest level, as it were. Besides, everyone has to die sometime and, if some agency is chosen for the implementation part, in what position are we ‘residuals’ to query much further?

  9. OT: The government is closing in on Globovision, I think this huge fine is just the beginning of the end for Globo, Chiabe wants to make sure to shut up all the disident voices before he steals the elections in 2012, and Globoterror for sure is one of the leading voices… I mean, Gaddafhi death is interesting, but I would like to know CC take on Globovision.

    • Gee, that’s like saying, the day HItler’s charred remains were found, that it was interesting news, but not nearly as much as what was going to happen to Deutsche Welle, or whatever the broadcaster was at the time.

        • Actually- Venezuelans should have been “interested” -and some-
          voiced opposition to Chavez -getting involved with Libya(-as Syd
          an “axis of evil”)-too often most Venezuelans have said and did nothing
          about Chavez kissing up to and embracing the worlds worst dictators
          -inviting them to Venezuela and honoring them- even now- shouldn’t
          most Venezuelans say- Chavez was wrong to be involved-with Libya
          and Chavez is wrong to be kissing up to Castro- see- once you start
          “down that road” all of Chavez identity unravels and the lies and
          rotten disease is exposed for what it is..

          • Obviously buddy, but do you think Chavez gives a damn about what Venezuelans say, think or want? He only cares about him entrenched in Miraflores forever.

          • but do you think Chavez gives a damn about what Venezuelans say, think or want?

            I for one do. He wants to be loved and admired. He’s all about the Potlatch, Presents, Cargo and Faith. He’s stone cold crazy, in that he will do anything in his power to make the Venezuelans say the right thing and want the right thing and really mean it.

  10. The example of killing Bin Laden illustrates the “just war” doctrine. Bin Laden proved he was a risk to societies at large and killing him was certainly an act of self-defense (ask those of us who live in the NY/NJ area). Killing Qaddafi illustrates the same moral principle. There is no question the man had no scruples and was responsible for countless and grievous offenses to his own people and others.

  11. Quico, I know it´s meant as a joke but that: “…and enjoying a well-deserved retirement.” pisses me off!!

    Anyways, this guy didn´t stay in Lybia cause he was brave, he stayed because he was arrogant and stupid, I for one celebrate his death with a drink; when his good friend who looks like a mix between Java the Hut and an overweight GI-Joe puts on a “wooden-suit”, I will spend good money on cigars and scotch, certain deaths make the world a better place, and for that we must celebrate.

    • My guess would be that he will not recognize the new government for some time. He will treat Libya as occupied territory in the hands of El Imperio. In this case, in the short term, he has nothing to lose by being ideologically consistent. However, as soon as he actually needs Libya for a vote in OPEC or something like that, he will abandon his “principles”.

        • yesterday was a great day for a sizeable chunk of people, not only did Gaddafi die at the hands of his once victimized people, but the in-famous terrorist band EUSKADI TA ASKATASUNA bowed to not ever kill again. I think that spaniards all over the world can stand proud today. Not only did the spanish state manage to beat the las armed group still in existence in western europe but it did so in a way that is exemplary. For the las 50 years, bar a small stint, Spain has managed to slowly encroach these murderers with the law, with inteligence and with the police. Terrorist were not hunted down like rats. They were captured, tried in accordance with the law and respecting their rights, and finally jailed. It was slow, and it came too late for the almost 1000 victims that lie in peace, and for the many more that were maimed and injured for life, but notwithstanding it was done right. A multi-partisan effort bore its fruit.

          I am sorry for this rant, but I think that there is much to learn from this, as I am also thinking that Venezuela may have to go down this path in the not-too-distant-future, with armed guerillas wreaking havoc trying to force down our throats what they could not accomplish during 13 years in government.

    • Where are all those experienced terrorists going to work now?
      That’s the problem when long conflicts end. There are many combatants whose only abilities are in destruction and killing. They can’t go back to civilian life. Somewhere someone is going to pay (in more than one sense) for their skills.

  12. Terrible news. I couldn’t care less about Gaddafi’s well being, but…

    Terrible because the rebels should have insured that if he was captured alive, he stayed alive. Killing people like that, in cold blood, is what people like Gaddafi are known for. Now all sorts of doubts pop up about their ability to control their forces, and to, you know, run a country peacefully that is close to falling apart in the best of days.

    Terrible because they put him out of his misery, at the moment when it was starting. It was more an act of mercy than one of revenge. Just when he was REALLY beginning to atone.

    • “Just when he was REALLY beginning to atone.”
      Is Chavez really beginning to atone, too? I don’t think so..
      Chavez- hiding behind cancer, hiding behind religion?
      Hiding behind Fidel? And all of the other ALBA minions-
      the spotlight is on them now.

      • Okey, correction, Gaddafi was beginning to pay in suffering…

        Not atoning because one such as him knows no remorse and has no conscience. Anyhow, he was given the easiest way out.

        In a manner that is completely wrong. He seems to have been summarily executed. Rebel headquarters should have issued an order to kill the man outright, or to capture him and keep him alive come what may.

        • And of course, in the middle of a gunfight, that is the first thing on your mind: “I must follow the orders of Rebel Headquarters.”

          Shesh loro. It’s a Civil War. The Rebel Council are warlords. It’s a gunfight in the desert, What did you think – that he was going to be read his Miranda Rights? Who are we to judge what happened or what the proper procedure was?

          • Chavez really believes that? I suppose we do not know Quadaffi like Chavez knew Quadaffi-
            they “became” brothers..but -the Venezuelan people never really knew Quadaffi-
            =Chavez does not speak for the Venezuelan people. (Neither do Venezuelans really
            intimately know Castro, either)
            One thing-el pueblo will gobble up is Chavez saying “the Empire wants to steal
            Libya’s oil”.
            Really, I can’t see how Chavez can mention this while at a “holy shrine”-what an idiot!!

          • Even a moderately smart warlord can issue a standing order to either NOT capture Gaddafi alive (shoot him on sight, and be sure he’s dead) or to capture him and KEEP him alive and in good health. And to threaten to shoot anyone violating that order in turn. Said warlords can have lieutenants in every front line outfit to insure that orders are carried out. It’s not that difficult to know what units are closer to probable Gaddafi whereabouts. After all, they are capturing the King. Kind of a plan.

            They got to Sirte all the way from Bengazi and are supposed to run a country, you know?

            But this was a (insert your least favorite nationality here) fire drill. Apparently he had not been gravely injured in the video of his capture.

            I am not sorry for the man and really didn’t want to spare him suffering. He had a lot to pay yet on this Earth.

  13. How does Chavez explain the celebrations in Libya- I saw whole groups
    bowing down, kissing the ground, kissing the flag, then resuming firing their
    guns into the air -hugging and kissing each other “Jubilation, Rejoicing!
    And -over here inVenezuela- Chavez at a holy shrine -of all places
    calling this evil thing Quadaffi ” a martyr, a hero”
    What is wrong with this picture? Venezuelan people -ask yourselves
    tonight- what is wrong with this picture?

  14. Gosh there are 104 comments. I can’t read them all. Kah-da-fee is no loss to the world, similar to Saddam or Chavez, but the dictatorship de Venezuela will pass by natural causes, i,.e health reasons. You can expect the same timelines, for different reasons in establishing true democracy in each country. Let’s hope God blesses Venezuela on the way forward.

    Dictatorship is over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Don’t feel sorry for the fall of Cuba. Watch this space.

  15. Gaddafi did not want to come to Venezuela because of the crime rate, he wasn’t that dumb! After all, who would dare overthrow him?

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