GoogleHangout de Caracas Chronicles en Español – Ya Terminó

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  1. El CNE cuenta losvotos (Tibisay con el brazalete del chavismo) y las FAN los cuidan) con la orden de que el chavismo gane) es lomismo que zamuro cuidando carne porpartida doble.

  2. Esta elecciónno es por puestos en un organismo colegiado donde las proporciones valen, es una elección de todo o nada! Y aquí vamos para nada con todo el ventajismo. Así mejor no ir, eso si denunciando pública y repetidamente todas las inequidades

  3. Dejar de participar es repetir el abandono que se hizo en las elecciones de diputados. Hay que jugar y echarle bolas. Si empezamos a lamentarlos por la situación actual tampoco vamos a llegar a ningún lado. Es idealista? Pues si, pero tampoco hay más opciones.

  4. Esta elecciónno NO es por puestos en un organismo colegiado donde las proporciones valen, es una elección de todo o nada! Y aquí vamos para nada con todo el ventajismo. Así mejor no ir, eso si denunciando pública y repetidamente todas las inequidades

  5. Chamos: ya la MUD decidió participar. De lo que habria que hablar ahora es como convences a la gente que hay que ir a votar?

  6. How are the conditions fundamentally different now than they were before Oct 7?? Emotions are running higher and the outcome is perceived to be more certain, but conditions are different how?

    • Defense Minister said the Armed Forces will ensure a Maduro win.

      Maduro violated the laws and the Constitution by taking the oath and being the incumbent President, which gives him a HUGE advantage.

      • And Rangel Silva said what before the 2012 election? I’m not talking about legality, I’m talking about the political reality of ventajismo. Mision vivienda and free washing machines then were a much bigger deal than anything the Defense Minister said this week. Conditions weren’t fair then, and they aren’t fair now. If you’re going to accept this fact and stand up and be counted anyway, then stand up and be counted! The only difference I see is you guys thought you could win back in October. Smacks of sour grapes….

          • The real reason you can’t win right now is because convincing chavistas to abandon chavismo has been a process of diminishing returns. What you are left with in 2013 is a dedicated base of revolutionary support, which is almost totally immune to opposition talking points, and will not be alienated by further expropriations or attacks on private media.

            The only way for the opposition to stay relevant is to continue shifting to the left.

          • Mr. Nagel, with all due respect, I think you need to shift your definition of winning.

            Right now, the Presidency may seem like a prize, but as has been discussed extensively on here, whomever wins will be stuck trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. I believe that the Chavistas have a better longterm chance of retaining power, but it will still be an ugly few years. Run to lose building on the weaknesses of Chavismo by pushing an agenda of inclusion, honesty and anti-corruption where everyone, from the Tupamaros to Diego Arria have the right to sit and be heard.

            Think of the red-headed stepchild of government: what would be the outcome of developing a majority in the AN. Yes, it seems meaningless, particularly in a government where all power is vested in the head of state, but what the AN gives, it can take away, can it not? Erode the legislative base of Chavismo and you have a much better chance at the presidency down the road after the economic chaos that should occur in the next couple of years. Do you want to unmask an uncharismatic president as an autocrat for both internal and external observers? What would happen were he to go against the will of the people as evidenced by contravening their elected representatives? Which group would be better situated to support a presidential run in a few years, particularly since the carrying power of Chavez is nowhere evidenced in Maduro?

            I know it seems rather farfetched, but might this not be the better scenario? How many of the laws that apply to President Chavez will continue to do so with President Maduro, even with the TSJ in his pocket? I realize this isn’t ‘merican politics, but if you want to reveal a masquerade for what it is, attack the winnable branch of government, despite its weakened form.

            Or am I hysterically off base here?

  7. (Es divertido tratar de reconstruir la conversación a partir de los fragmentos que permite la “banda ancha” de Cantv.)
    Aunque ya se decidió participar, y era difícil no hacerlo en estas circunstancias, la participación no debería ser un dogma. Andreas Schedler muestra, en este estudio comparativo, que en ciertas condiciones una abstención en bloque, acordada como parte de un proyecto estratégico por la oposición en su conjunto, ha contribuido a producir resultados democratizadores:
    “Transitions from electoral authoritarianism.”
    http://cide.edu/publicaciones/status/dts/DTEP%20222.pdf

  8. No puedo creer que ustedes, especificamente Nagel, siguen con el mismo refran que “la gente es idiota”. Como he dicho anteriormente, este dipo de pedantería y estupidez es precisamente la razón por la cual la oposición va a perder las elecciones – no desestimen la inteligencia del pueblo porque ustedes han estudiado en el exterior.

    In English:

    I can’t believe that you, specifically Nagel, continue with the same thoughts that “the people are idiots” – this is what Nagel just said. As I have said before in this post, it is precisely this type of stupidity and pedantry that will make the opposition lose elections – do not underestimate the intelligence of the people just because you have studied abroad.

  9. I must admit that it’s weird to look and hear yourself on Youtube. I should have shaven first.

  10. It was great to see you all. So much so, that right after the “chao puej” from Quico I bought your book from Amazon. The dead tree version, even. Keep it up!

  11. Henrique tiene que ser ahora un rothweiler con mal de rabia y decirle a la gente, de frente, “hay que devaluar mas”, “hay que aumentar la gasolina”, etc. Si se gana, se gana doble; si se pierde, luego se puede decir “te lo dije”.

    • Reducir la nomina publica, privatizar empresas del estado, fin del control de precios e importaciones, descongelar tarifas electricas, impuestos a las importaciones, fin de la inamobilidad laboral, en resumen, capitalismo neoliberal salvaje, lo que han venido diciendo que es la oposicion y el puntofijismo, durante todos estos años.

      Don’t get me wrong, todo eso hay que hacer, pero ya que salga sapo o salga rana, le va a caer al abanico, vamos a darle turbo desde ya!

  12. No debemos perder esta ni ninguna oportunidad, esta vez entendiendo vamos a una derrota mas, aprovecharla para claramente denunciar, y hablarle al pueblo de una vez con absoluta verdad, cero populismo, la época de la abundancia quedo atrás, y no ellos no les dio la gana de aprovechar.
    Cambios fuertes, desagradables, indiscutiblemente vendrán, entonces, por lo menos podremos decir; gracias a 14 años de incapacidad el “paquetazo no pudo esperar mas”

  13. Thanks for posting the video, looks like you need some sleep

    A few minutes into it you reminded me that this is largely a blank slate election. The rules have been reset. Sure, the sympathy vote is real, but the absence of Chavez contrasted to those left behind in charge is very palpable. Everyone seems to agree that Maduro is a wuss, as Capriles kept mentioning yesterday, and Capriles will continue to tug at the comandante’s mantle as his to wear. That makes me think anew that there is a much greater chance that the ninis will turn to Capriles in this one. The last loss is still fresh in our minds, need to realize this is a new competition.

    However as Juan reminds us the Defense Ministry is partisan, so there is no question that even if the opposition pulls out the win it will be rigged into a loss. The best one can hope for ultimately is international condemnation. This sort of thing really ought to be addressed by some international body, now.

  14. Embalmagate: 1. The whole idea is not even technically feasible. 2. Chavez family members will speak up against it.

    In fact I bet after the election the whole idea will be quickly dropped for both reasons.

  15. OT — but continuing to drive me crazy — from Reuters: “At one building in a wealthy corner of Caracas, people drank wine and whisky around a swimming pool, rejoicing at Chavez’s demise”.

    Right, all six million plus people who voted against Chavez last October fit this profile.

    It’s lazy, and it’s misleading.

    Reporters: Please. Do. Some. F–ing. Reporting.

    These pieces all follow the same, set formula. Poor person utters support for Chavismo. Professional person in wealthy neighborhood says opposite.

    Why don’t you interview one of the many wealthy “revolutionaries” next time? Or one of the many opposition supporters who isn’t swilling whiskey or on their way to their white-collar job?

    I know this is tangential to the larger, more important discussion — but: grrrrrrr.

    • Lucia,
      This blog perpetuates the formula that you are trying to avoid. If you watch the video that is attached to this thread, you will hear Nagel say that the people are idiots; meaning that poor people are stupid and, hence, support Chavez. Some of the celebratory posts that were made on this blog after Hugo Chavéz passed by wealthy, whiskey-drinking, members of the opposition also follow the script that you revile.

      • ElPipo:
        The government thinks the pueblo are idiots. How else do you interepret the disrespect to the poor, when offialdom sends out a phoney casket (prove to me that Chávez was in it!) and provides too few, if any hygenic facilities, knowing well in advance, the number of people that would come to pay their respects. You have one hell of a nerve complaining.

      • Well Juan has always been a neoliberal crazyman. In a good way, though. Do even you understand that it’s not the same thing to be smart as to agree on basic premises?

      • One more of those and your comments will be deleted. That is not what I meant and I have already apologized. I’m not going to give an anonymous blowhard a forum to question my integrity … Without merit!

    • Lucia, I suggest sending the link to your comment to Reuters — ed, LatAm.

      Years ago, I sent my complaint on the use of stereotypes in a report on Chávez’s Vzla to the appropriate CBC-radio show host. Lo and behold, about a year later, I heard fewer clichés, not sure that it was my complaint that did it. Vale intentarlo.

    • I agree with you on that one Lucia. Too many cliches in international news on Venezuela, and that´s why many gringos and even people in other latin america countries think that its a huge mass of poor people, helped by Chavez vs a few rich people in Venezuela.

  16. Google Hangouts — mi observación. Si Juan va anunciar el Cho de Chos por twitter, acaso no es hora de enseriarse (un poquito)?

    — laViejaGuardia

  17. Its infuriating the false cheap stereotyping of wicked wealthy elite vs noble mass of the suffering poor redeemed by heroic romantic revolutionary super man which so many people abroad enrich their fantasy life with , but the truth of the matter is that the battle is here , not there , and its a long term battle which requires a lot of discipline and resilience and astuteness and boldness . Lets remain focused and confident, a door will inevitably open sooner or later allowing decent people a good chance of putting things aright !!

  18. “Vídeo de João Santana em homenagem a Chávez”

    This is really well produced, well, they have the all the monies…

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