Capriles's Blunder on When Chávez Died

0
Oops
Oops

News that the Venezuelan government is backtracking on its plans to embalm president Chávez’s body so it could be displayed for all eternity strike me as significant on a couple of counts. As you read on this blog, that kind of embalming is only feasible if the body is treated immediately after death, and as Maduro now recognizes, initial treatment was not done on time.

Set aside the keystone cops image of Maduro randomly declaring pa’lante y pa’trás on this matter. The revelation makes the opposition’s cherished conspiracy theory about Chávez dying long before it was announced seem much less likely to be true…and, at the same time, it makes a blunder of Capriles’s very public questioning on the matter.

Let’s be clear, I love the new, feistier Capriles as much as the next guy. But that’s no excuse for recklessness. Insinuating that the government lied about the timing of the president’s death without any evidence is serious business. And blundering on such a point carries clear political costs, which the government is not shy about extracting. 

1 COMMENT

  1. What blunder? The dead man was cobbled up to look well enough for a limited period and, on realising that they had a trump card when folk showed up for a last peak, they decided to gi for the long haul BUT the long haul, in the wake of the iitial short-haul decision turns out to be an impracticility so the government, finding itself against the wall, is constrained to fess up, “We got ahead of ourselves guys; the eternal embalming is off”.

    And the phrase, “Insinuating that the government lied about the timing of the president’s death,” implies the death did not simply occur [in which case “Insinuating that the government lied about the time of the president’s death” would have been quite appropriate] but was brought on by outside action [in which case, “Insinuating that the government lied about the timing of the president’s death” would properly reflect that fact].

    And, as amatter of interest, can anybody, outside the “innerest” of inner circles, actually say that the real moment of death is known?

  2. Indeed. Chavismo is not goint to let go this blunder easily:

    Capriles has asked for forgiveness when asked, but I think MOctavio is dead on here (http://devilsexcrement.com/2013/03/13/dizzy-from-the-dazzling-chavista-wisdom-coming-out-of-venezuela/): Chavez, chavismo and his family lied to us for two years. Furthermore, they lied to us during the las 80 days. They decided to put the whole country on stand by for that time, because, you know, Chavez is much more important than the country.
    If I were Capriles, I would call a press conference to ask for forgiveness to Chavez Family for the blunder, but I’d also go on a rant about the web of lies and the whole Chavez-before-Venezuela stuff. But thats’ me. I hope they come up with something better…

    • Wouldn’t it be awesome if Capriles answered something like “Bueno, Nicolás, si de verdad te quieres debatir, solo dímelo! Ya yo me excusé varias veces, *aquí* y *allá.* No hay razón de ser penoso! Ya sabemos que tus instructores cubanos bla bla bla.”

    • A really wonderful comment by MO, which says it all. No one still really knows when Chavez died, or probably will until there is a regime change. There are non-embalming reasons for what Maduro said: the Panteon is not conditioned/secure enough for placing Chavez there at this time; a referendum coupled with the Presidential vote could muddy the waters for a Maduro victory; etc. Capriles stated the obvious to his constituency, and in the context of criticizing Maduro. His carefully-worded “apology” to the Chavez family was addressed to fence-sitter ni-ni’s. One cannot believe a word of what Chavez family/Government members say. They will all continue to lie/cheat/steal to maintain their power/wealth/immunity from (hopefully eventual) criminal prosecution

  3. Sorry, there was no blunder here. The Maduro regime has regularly lied about the health of Chavez. What Capriles did is highlight the obvious question” who knows when he really died?”. I think it is a very fair point.

    • The problem is the Chavistas successfully converted Capriles’ “the government and Nicolas lied to you about the President’s death” to “Chavez daughters lied about his death” and that makes him sound like a prick. You can question Maduro’s abilities to run a country, but the propaganda people he’s got behind him are an A1 team and put Capriles on the defensive on that one. If it wouldn’t be working then they would leave it alone.

    • Furthermore, Maduro has offered to debate Capriles if he asks for forgiveness. If Capriles goes ahead and pay the price, Maduro will be forced to react to that.

      What would happen if Capriles apologizes and Maduro backpedals on his offering? I’d love to see that…

      • Yes, I think it would be better for Capriles to apologize to chavez’ daughter and even say how a loving daughter would never betray her father memory and then justify his doubts about Chavez’ death by giving a few examples of contradictory government information. Say the government and Nicolas provided contradictory information to the people and then thank her for “clearing all the doubts”. Then move on to accept Maduro’s debate and make it about plans to solve the issues of the venezuelans.

        • Excellent! You know, aside from being an opposition supporter, being a poli science enthusiast I enjoy Venezuelan political campagins because boths sides always make the best campaign moves possible. You don’t see lame campaings like those of Mitt Romney for example.

          • Honestly, I’d rather have more honest blunders than perfect machiavelian cunning. Romney is no santo de mi devocion, but the gaffes that sank his campaign were at least honest errors.

          • Well, I think you can be honest and run a good campaign. These things are not mutually exclusive. If you think about it, Romney could have done a lot more; it seemed as if he was running an 80’s campaign.

  4. I see no Ooops factor in a Capriles who asked, something to the effect, Quién sabe cuando murió?

    I see no Oops factor when, as of today, there has been no partida de fallecimiento produced on Chávez’s death.

    I see no Ooops factor, when the letter by María Gabriela, which mentions her brother-in-law Arreaza in glorified terms, is produced read by Villegas in the madurista attempt to try to put down Capriles et al for daring to question the lack of normal practices, insofar as death is concerned.

    Here are a few Ooops factors for you:

    Why did Maria Gabriela, Cristina Kirchner and Dilma Rousseff not attend the state funeral for Chávez, Cristina in particular, aborting the plan to give the homily (or whatever it’s called from a secular source) and returning subito pronto back to Argentina?

    By how much did the country’s wax supplies go down in early March?

    • Hear hear… If you weigh oooops factors from both camps i think madurro is winning. but then they will demonize anything capriles says or doesn’t say. There’s no known kryptonite against that. If capriles comes out begging forgiveness I personally feel it is far worse for our camp, demoralizing. Speciallymwhen everybody and the cat is wondering reallymwhen did chavez die? JFK held the torch for There is no guarantee maduro would debate. They are the worse flipfloppers, they will find whatever excuse.

      • I meant JFK held the torchnfor conspiracy theories up to now. We will never know formsure, and everybody and the cat knows that. So saying who knows when Chavez died is just voicing what everybody thinks, even his followers. I guess the quid here is throwing THE shadow of a doubt publicly on air IS the thing to do IMO. they are going tomreact because they got caught on air.

    • If I remember correctly Kirchner and Rousseff were among the first to hop on a plane to Venezuela, already on March 6. Not sure why they reacted with such urgency but Kirchner said suppose it was simply a show her allegiance to Chavez. My guess is an early return was politically calculated to avoid being pictured with the cast of untouchables assembled on friday, or given that they cannot predict the outcome of the coming election.

    • Yes. And contrary to what some people think, this only needs to be effective with chavistas. The target here is to show Capriles as inhumane to chavistas. There are more of them anyways. Keeping them from voting Capriles is enough to win.

    • Does it matter?. They can replace “Capriles is insensitive” for “Capriles is gay” -> “Capriles is fill-in insult”. Can’t compete with a dead man. When the wise man points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger. That says a lot about Venezuelans, many are still looking for the grinch who stole the elections.

      • True, true, but in this case I think its more powerful because it has the triple effect of undermining Capriles while talking about Chavez and about his family’s pain. It is an emotional message all chavistas can identify with. Besides they have Capriles’ declaration as “proof”. So I would think it is more effective than an unfounded, empty insult.

    • It is clear that if Chavez went from the Military Academy to the museum it would the first “smoking gun” confirming the lie they have been selling. My guess is that the government finally realized the liability of doing this. HCR has been effective in questioning their credibility and my guess is that the base is starting to ask questions. So the selection of this route by the government team (junta, whatever it is) makes sense to me: reduce the liabity and attack HCR. They have to keep their base happy.

  5. But it’s so simple. All we have to do is divine from what we know of Maduro. Is he the sort of man who would embalm his own dead president, or head-fake it to confuse Capriles? Now, a clever man would embalm his own president, because he would know that only a great fool would say he was lying about the president’s death. Capriles is not a great fool, so he can clearly not fall for the embalmed trick in front of him. But Maduro must have known Capriles is not a great fool; he would have counted on it, so Capriles can clearly not fall for the old dead embalmed president head fake… Ad infinitum, the batte of the wits!

    HT: Vizzini.

    • yeah, I heard Argenis’ oops factor when he contradicted Maduro’s sometime-in-February announcement that “We worked with the president on matters of state, for 5 hours.” As though someone with a derrame could even think straight, let alone communicate normally.

      Las mentiras tienen patas cortas.

  6. Why, the body was embalmed long ago, Otherwise its impossible to keep it in such presentable conditions for people to see after more than a week. This is another cover up lie.

    • Weel U saw the body yesterday and it makes your comment just a piece of nonsense. It is the same as the “true rumor” that Chavez had lost 15 – 20 kilos in weight when sick. No way. He looked as well formed as ever he was probably due to medication.

      How many of you have bothered to go and see Chavez lying in state? Probably no-one since you all live abroad.

      • Im told by someone who saw his cadaver that his head appeared dispproportionally large compared to an oviously shrunken body !!

  7. He may be right, about timing, but it was really fucking stupid to say that no less in his campaign announcement. Capriles would be a good president but he won’t be. Single greatest thing, in vid from last post he demands to respect the Constitution of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, because it is EVERYBODY’s. Thats it, thats all he needs to do. Be critical, be angry, but demand respect for the Constitution that Hugo brought about. I’m not being cheeky at least not on purpose. the opposition must accept that Venezuelans have voted for a certain project, and they must accept that their only role is to improve this project. When Venezuelans see that Capriles, the MUD and other want first and foremost, to eliminate poverty, for the missions to succeed, for Hugos project to succeed, then they will have transcended the polarization and then, in the best interest of the country, economic policy can be debated and hopefully led by more skilled economists and planners, but that chance will never come if the polarization is not transcended

    • Totally agree. But its important to frame “Hugos project” in the correct light as an effort to bring people out of poverty, not destroy a capitalist society.

    • Your point might be valid, but not necessarily right.
      The President himself showed a level of complete disregard for that Constitution you claim he brought about. A careful look at what Chavez campaigned for during 98 and, what circumstances impeded him to do before monopolizing power during 2002 adventure, just shows that he was a Troy Horse. One carefully chosen by Cuban autocrats.
      “Voting for certain project” is not what I would chose as the best example of Chavez stay in power.
      The opposition cannot chose a candidate that agrees on “certain project” because I think we don’t share that view of the nation. For if what you refer to is about poverty reduction, we would have to open another blog to be able to include all those views on development and economic growth. Moreover, poverty reduction during Chavez era is mired on controversy to say the less.
      I do not agree with “Bolivarian Republic” because is redundant and unnecessary; I do not agree with 8 stars because that doesn’t solve our structural problems; I do not agree with the motto “Ahora Venezuela es de todos” because is simply not true; I do not agree with Fondem because is anoter source of hidden corruption; I do not agree with “los venezolanos y venezolanas” because is mentally retarded; I do not agree with an exchange control because we already had one sufficiently catastrophic (RECADI anyone?); I do not agree with communes or communal councils because they are clientelist sources of corruption and they have shown how inoperative they are; I do not agree with “Misiones” because they are the clearest sign of improvisation and waste, and because they are unaccountable. I do not agree with a CNE and a TSJ loyal to a man and not to a constitution, AND SO ON…
      To transcend polarization is not possible at this point, because is not only Hugo, it’s also a symptom of decadence; i.e. post-modern condition. There are just two possible views: theirs and ours. No space for inclusion until some sense fills the government side. Power should not be an end, not at least on a “democracy”.
      Thanks Chavez we are fighting for a XIX Century model.

      Gracias Coma andante (no more…)

      • Thanks for the replies. Mayke, your points are valid, no doubt to at least 40% of Venezuelans they are right 🙂 . but I think we can circle around our ideological differences and agree at least as point 1, that whatever the policies they must be implemented well, which is not the case currently. In point 2, we diverge, because i don’t think the situation is hopeless (i agree with you, not the Chavista’s, that the situation is really bad in part BECAUSE of Chavistas) but, i think a new coalition of BOTH oppos and Chavistas must take the reigns and do things right. Some policies which you describe must be changed, some such as exchange controls could be easily eliminated, if the people TRUSTED you to do so, others can stay and be improved. But if you think austerity, devaluation and gasolinazo are the only solutions, you’ve got to be kidding that the misiones must go, right when the most poor will most need a safety net! The next and next-next Presidents job is huge, to fix things AND not screw over the poorest. If everyone is screwed, then first the super rich, and then the upper middle classes, then middle class AND the poor groups must SHARE the pain (ideally the hard but rewarding work) this is the major failing i see in financial dogma and the reason why the poor, intuitively, won’t vote for the right, at least when faced with a real option to vote for the guy who guarantees current benefits instead of the rich kid who advocates sound policies which will not directly affect him, which may create future benefits but will 100% eliminate the current ones. Sure its obvious and may be the problem itself, but there are better ways to go about it, and it doesn’t mean lying and pretending to advocate 21st century socialism, but it does require acceptance of basic things such as the constitution, and the leftward lean of the electorate. Also, even the middle and upper classes intuit that pure neoliberalism, which in a way led to Chavez, isn’t enough of a solution. I might be wrong, but i think many WILL transcend the polarization, as best they can, and the best minds should lead that socio-political process in order to obtain the best results and not just the survival of the current government.

        • Hi Maisanta!
          Thanks for your reply. I haven’t got the time to reply you in detail, but I must say that my position was not about eliminating “misiones”. The fact is that it seems like before the bloody “Misiones” there were not social programs in the world. That is consistent with Chavismo’s rhetoric that thanks to Chavez we’ve got solid and high oil prices (you and I know that isn’t not only true, it’s a symptom of magic realism), or more recently that Chavez interceded before God himself to appoint a Latin American Pope (sic).
          How come something so delicate as social programs are being created and implemented on a TV show program?? It takes an enormous amount of coordination and planning to create effective social programs. That’s my point. We must stop talking about misiones because this is an abominable way of governing. The unburied expresident used to complain so much about disorder and inefficiency that he never saw he was the culprit of all, and of course, of his jalabolas…
          Why to create a parallel educational system? Because in fact, all these people would never have an opportunity in the formal system. Crude or not, social programs must work for the future. We must think about the excludees of tomorrow, as to prevent that to happen. But to pay a person for entering a parasistema and graduate in 6 months, when even those graduating in the formal system after 5 years studying aren’t able to write properly, is not only unforgivable, it’s demagogic.

        • as a chavista who is almost always run out of these comment sections, let me say that i welcome your comment and support your suggestions about working together. that is, after all, the reason i’ve hung around the site as long as i have. the first thing the opposition on this site could do is tolerate a chavista or two in the comments.

      • Good reply, in my answer I overlooked those “inconvenient details”. The key point is whether there are insurmountable differences between the camps. If you listen to Capriles the answer is no. Your argument is that as you get to the nitty gritty details all chance of consensus is lost. Plus there is history. Yep.

        First, I agree with your objections regarding the absurd, costly and propagandist changes carried out by Chavez. Rituals and symbols have their place in every nation and evolve in time. For better or worse some that Chavez implemented might be around for a while.

        Second, popular chavista programs were evidently not carried out with transparency and efficiency always in mind. You keep what works, you retire what didn’t as quickly as politically possible. Social programs come and go. Different incentives work best at different times in different countries.

        Finally, at a structural level, the chavernment has done plenty damage to the country, there is a lot to fix.

        Ultimately the only way to make progress is to win over the electorate, and in the immediate term that means making concessions by framing the discourse as a joint program, and making the best of the bad. I think this is true regardless of who comes to power. Capriles is in a special position because he has governed under Chavez so he understands how the administration he would take over operates better than anyone. If Capriles loses, the hope is that Maduro will govern pragmatically and shed some of the weight from the Chavez years. Unfortunately his administration will consist of many of the same people as before, so that may be too much to expect.

  8. Chavez’s brain died in December but his body continued in life support as long as necessary. The Costa Rican ambassador to the OEA made it public shortly before Chavez’s official death was announced. Now Argenis Chavez unwittingly provides the evidence to support this view.
    http://www.noticierodigital.com/2013/03/argenis-chavez-dice-que-el-presidente-sufrio-derrame-durante-operacion/
    Argenis Chávez dice que el Presidente sufrió derrame durante operación
    12 Marzo, 2013
    ND.- Argenis Chávez aseguró hace minutos que el presidente Hugo Chávez sufrió un derrame durante la operación del 11 de diciembre. No específico qué tipo de derrame.
    opinan los foristas
    “Nunca se le mintió al país, yo estuve presente allí en La Habana junto a las hijas del Presidente de la República…pasamos momentos difíciles, cuando nos enteramos del derrame que en la operación sufrió el presidente de la República. Todo eso se le informó a través de los medios de comunicación”, dijo el presidente de Corpoelec.

  9. Quico there are reports from argentina that la K left early because she realized there was something off, in more ways than one. Even in the pro K press. So, at least HCR threw a mid air punch that made even Argenis Chavez add to the confusion. If Ch had a strole post op how on earth did he: Sign docs
    Smile with daughters in photo op
    Tweet
    Exercise
    Meet for 5 hours with the circus
    Send his regards
    So, maybe itnwas a punch in the air and they responded, but… More importantly why the hellmis maduro dsguised as a military?
    And second, tonite at the same time as your google hangout @hcapriles is in a special program in Globo, so maybe you’d like to hold it post program? Just suggestin’

      • Hi Syd My question is rhetorical… I understand the intent, but how come we hacen’t called THAT BLUFF… Even Vhavez was criticized by the military and stopped using tehm for a while.

        • Oh, I see (on the rhetorical).
          Chávez used military garb as exclamation points, during or after he made certain statements that he intended to reinforce. That happened throughout his regime. So military criticism against Chávez for his use of military garb didn’t have much effect.

          I look forward to Capriles’ statement tonight. Thanks for the heads-up.

          • My point is Syd that Chavez got a rap in the hand early in his regime by his military chiefs when he kept disguising himself as a military when he was retired, later on… envalentonado, post coup he used it again and lately never took the fidel cassock off. But at least he was a military at one time. Whilst Maduro, well… I don’t want to go down the low punch of stating his CV here, but…

      • The Ley de Defensa was changed by Chavez so that his title as Comandante en Jefe was not simply an attribute of whoever was president as in the past but an actual formal Military Rank , Maduro is now legally an officer of the Armed Forces holding an actual military rank same as a general or a coronel . His wearing the uniform is to remind the army officers that he outranks them and that therefore the owe him allegiance not merely because he is s head of state but because he has a higher military rank than they do..

  10. Not that I’m disregarding Hugo and his people’s own flagrant Constitutional violations, but heres the thing: with Chavez gone, his lackeys want to perpetuate his image in themselves. But his real legacy, his living word if you’ll forgive the brief mystic interlude, is the Constitution. Ironically,the best formula to defeat Chavez’ own machine is his true great work. No doubt if Capriles and other oppo’s begin to act as if they were honest, well intentioned PSUV members, their criticisms will find more echo with dissident voices inside Chavismo, which will begin t be heard once the trauma of his passing fades away. Chavistas loved Hugo , but many, including myself, care much more for his Constitution and his ideas, than fornhis lackeys

    • Yes, I agree, though this is kind of what Henri Falcón tried to do after leaving the PSUV and in joining the PPT. I clearly remember HF speaking about the constitution and how he was still part of the “proceso”, though critical of Chávez…. before El comandante managed to destroy this critical interlude within chavismo/la revolución.

      But now that Chávez is no longer, this kind of move might be possible again.

    • There is a real risk of muddling the message if you start pretending you are PSUV, after all you want to send the message that you are uniquely different from the chavista helm, plus you also risk the support of the 45%.

  11. Capriles today with Cesar Miguel Rondon, said that if he has offended someone because he was misinterpreted that he apologizes.

    Now, it is really easy to spin this. One, saying that the president health was handled in secrecy and that Chavez and his family were forced to that because of Chavez’s entourage. He (against his will) was taken to Cuba for a subpar medical treatment were secrecy could be kept instead of going to Brazil where all the other latinamerican presidents where treated (successfully). Speculation can only be blamed on them, and in fact, Chavez demise can be blamed on them and their (and the Castro’s) obsession with secrecy.

    Two. These guys are so incompetent that the preservation of the remains of their almighty, glorious and supreme leader was completely improvised and ending in complete failure. If they can’t take of that, which we can only imagine is very important to them, imagine the performance when they are taking care of lesser issues like public safety, economic policy, etc.

    Again, I see nothing wrong, and if anything Capriles can easily spin it.

  12. I think Capriles should say something along the lines of “The information from the government regarding President Chavez was contradictory.” Then name a few examples like Maduro saying he died “far from his country”, the 5-hour meeting, Arreaza saying no one can see him, and the lack of a medical junta being able to verify his health. And then say that is why he was asking himself whether this information was trustworthy or not.

    Then say “If a loving daughter like she Maria Gabriela says the information was correct, then I believe her because I’m sure she would never dishonor her father’s memory. Thank you for clarifying that and I apologize if anything I say offended the president or his family. I accept Maduro’s challenge to a debate to talk about how we plan to solve the problems of the Venezuelan people” (as in no-Chavez questions).

    I think Capriles would benefit from a debate about problem-solving and ideas about how to face the economic troubles. Hey if can’t beat Maduro on a debate then he shouldn’t be the president anyways.

  13. And besides, one of my twitter panas assured me last night that JJ Rendón was behind the whole thing… So, who knows. By the way i’m really more concerned and wondering what on earth is the chavernmet smokin’ these days? From mystical experiences with the ex-mummiefied ghost, to public threats from la pran, to chavez’s influence on the heavens for Frances being named… I’m wondering how on earth did he managed THAT from purgatory at best, with a sworn enemy of his BFF, la K. Maybe offered new housing clouds up above? Free oil to heat them up? Sang to the heavenly choir? Danced with the stars? Who knows?

    • They want to prolong the Chavez-effect as long as possible and make the campaign “Chavez deathwish vs Capriles” rather than just “Maduro vs Capriles”

      • Again 😉 rhetorical questions I ask myself. But… I wonder who do the masses metabolize the fact that Chavez was a revolutionary commie lover, Castro’s boy, and at the same time he a mere newbie, not 6 days into his afterlife, influences God to name Frances the Pope. Of course they wouldn’t know Frances and la K despise each other…AND most importantly I also ask myself why in spite of their very authentic emotional connection with Chavez the Mesiah don’t mind his handing us tied and trussed, to the Castros? Don’t they mind being an enslaved colony to the communist jurassic island?

        • The masses as you say, don´t give a f$%@k about communists and their relationship with religion, let alone the Castros, Cuba or the new Pope and his rejection to los K regimen… They do not know what those topics are. They only care about Mi Casa Equipada, Mision Vivienda, Mercal… All the venezuelan maids I¨ve had in the past 6 years love Chavez because he gave them a “house” (rancho) and he gave them appliances… That¨s it!

          • It’s true, he’s made us into a country of beggars. Hasta que se les cae el rancho en la cabeza por mala construcción. They spend their very hard lives with the worst standard of living possible, in every way, and they sell their vote for a handout. You arenright. It’s hopeless. At tleast the vietnamese saw it happening in their own commie regime and they left the russian /cuban model asap and are now evolving into the chinese versión of commie capitalism. They tell me theynrealized they had built a country of lazy people just standing in line gimmegimme a handout and the corruption it spawned.

          • …from Chavistas to “all the Venezuelan maids”. There you go, you’ve just plucked another nail from the coffin.

          • Hahaha, yeah u’r right. Sounded very derogatory and snob My excuse: I’m a divorced-working-hard-mom of TRES cachorros. Without help, and I mean help in the most humble way, it would be impossible for me to survive AND the help usually is from Colombia… My point is the “soberano” do not understand political regimes, political analisys and so on…

  14. Just wait it out. . . In fact, we can already move one: We have a new Latin American Pope! Let’s talk about that instead!

    • Indeed we do!! And according to Maduro, Chávez up in the heavens had a hand in guiding Christ to choose him. Even from beyond the grave HCH is tireless!

      • Yeah, I heard, what he forgot to say though is that Pope Francis was not a fan of the Kirchner in Argentina. . . How great if Pope Francis were to oppose all the crazy leftists in South America like Pope John Paul II did with the communists!

    • Imagine if Francis officially endorses Capriles. That would be amazing. Maduro could quickly tie him to the “los desaparecidos”, atrocities, etc of the dictatorial regime, but, oh sweet irony, he (and Chavez in limbo) already endorsed Francis, so he’d be caught in another contradiction. Capriles should probably remind people of Maduro’s endorsement a few times, just in case.

  15. When Maduro came out on TV (4 hours before announcing the death) to say the “enemies of the nation” gave cancer to Chávez the guy was already dead who knows how many hours/days.

  16. I think HCR should take the attention off the actual timming of the physical death (since it’s irrelvant in and of itself) and put the focus on whether a moribound Chavez could have made the government decisions Maduro claims he made. He can say “we now have a good reason to believe Chavez’ passed on March 5 (the daughter’s word)” but we don’t have a good reason to believe we had a mantally capable president up until the morning of March 5. We were led to believe that he was making government decisions all along till the day of his death. And whether that’s true or not is a very legitimate question that is still unanswered…and Venezuelans have the right to an answer bacause very important decisions were made during that time”

  17. This sounds crazy but mark my words…..the next script involves being made into a saint or some sort of holy spirit. He is going to be buried. Next, some months from now, his grave is going to be re-opened for some stupid reason. The news will be that his body is intact even though he was never embalmed. He is a holy man!

    • someone came up with the idea of having an italian designer make a mochila for maduro so that he can carry the wax effigy body of Chávez on Maduro’s back, wherever he goes.

    • After months of misleading comments from the chavernment I came up with this paranoid idea that the whole death episode was staged and that in fact Chavez was alive and they’d bring him up on stage at the last minute, maybe just before the election.

  18. I’m not sure if this post commits the same mistake of which it accuses Capriles. After all, are you believing maduro’s current claims without evidence? Aside from that, I don’t remember Capriles stating that the government lied about the date of death. What I remember is Capriles casting doubt with a mere question, after calling the goverment on a set of lies. The implication was there, but no statement.

    I would suggest that Capriles use the government’s same trick and state something to the effect of, “Fine, I’ll apologize at the start of the debate. See you there.”

  19. I know a doctor who claims that if your motor capacity to breathe is impaired by some neural mishap then usuallly that also makes it impossible for that person to have the motor capacity to put thumb and index finger together in pince like manner so that they are no longer able to hold a pen much less to write or sign anything !! There are actual people who can give first hand accounts that would make Maduro’s claims about the state of Chavez on his return to Venezuela absolutely discreditable , they talk to their closest family but not publicly because they want to avoid geting into real trouble, still they talk and the word gets arround . There are clues that at least part of the Maduro account of Chavez last days is pure fabrication , still finding ways of probing it in a public forum isn easy !!

  20. Leocenis García dixit “@LeocenisOficial: Chávez nunca llamó por su nombre a Capriles, estos en cambio lo nombran a cada rato. Las cosas cambiaron. No es tan facíl, Nicolas.”
    That’s my point too…long term? Capriles has the flies swirlin’ baby

  21. @ChavezOfficial: Nicolás no sabia que tenias tantas fotos mías! #Cripi #ChavezDesdeElCielo
    @ChavezOfficial: FUUUUIU! Me salvé de La Haya #ChavezDesdeElCielo
    Líder supremo, comandante supremo y presidente eterno de la revolución bolivariana.

    Avatar es un querubín de la capilla sixtina con la cara de chávez…. Too funny >:D
    At least it makes me laugh… I was missing him

  22. Capriles needs to offer some sort of national plan and stop blubbering on about when Chavez died as some here think he should NOT do. His implication that Chavez’s family somehow played a game with the body shows such a total lack of judgement for a man who thinks he might be President that he went back three paces before starting.

    And what is this about Leocenis Garcia being some sort of expert whn it comes to politics. I knw the man and he is just an opportunist who came from Maracaibo from Caracas looking for fame and fortune. He stayed in my home sleeping on teh floor.

    The fact is that you all know that Cpariles is on a big hiding to nothing since with the national mood as it is, abstention among chavistas will be even lower and many ni ni’s who voted for Capriles no longer have Chavez to bote against.

    Capriles idiotic comments and insults against many preople (Maduro, TSJ, CNE, Minister of Defense, Chavez family) will make it almost impossible for him to go to any barrio and campaign as he did before. In fact, it could be physically risky.

    An electoral beating is therefore in sight. First there is the chavista vote. Then the sympathy vote from the ni ni’s. Then the vote generated by 20 state governors. Then the former “soft” opposition vote who do not like Capriles behavior. This behavior is not gratuitous and Washington has him on a tight lease but means that his Washington handlers have written off the election and will now plan for violent provocation during the campaign and after it when Capriles loses again by a landslide – I estimate at least 20 points.

    So continue to blabber on about all the meningless stuff on this thread and wait for April 14th in the evening when the news that really matters is published.

    • I think you are exaggerating when you say Capriles is manipulated by the US. There is absolutely no evidence of this. If you have it, show it to us and I’ll agree with you that he shouldn’t be the president. On the other hand, you could say Maduro is manipulated by the Castros and have a very solid case.

      I partially agree with the fact that Capriles made a naive comment like “who knows when Chavez died?” which the Maduro campaign smartly deviated to make it seem as if he was casting a doubt on Chavez’s family. He should have focused on government officials giving contradicting versions of Chavez’s health status (this is where they lied to us for sure and it does not involve his family), and on the fact that they did not allow a junta to determine if he was fit to run the country or not, knowing he clearly wasn’t.

      However, having a TSJ that since 2003 has not ruled once against the government, and a Minister of Defense that unconstitutionally takes an open political stance, I think his criticism of them was well founded and it was well received by the opposition and ninis.

      I don’t expect Capriles to win, but I believe the results would be similar to those of 7-O. Little has changed since then and voting for Maduro will be seen as voting for Chavez’s ideals or Chavez’s deathwish. Having said that I would really like to see a Maduro-Capriles debate, it would be good for the country’s democracy to start such a tradition. I actually like that Maduro recognizes that something has to be done about the high criminality rates and that “el control de cambio” needs to be modified, and most importantly he announced specific measures to be taken. Whether you believe him or not, this is better than anything Chavez said regarding these issues.

    • Arturo, you were lied to for 2 whole years, I understand your frustration and anger but you’re directing those to the same people who are questioning why you were lied to in the first place. Deep down you know the government lied about Chávez’s health, after looking at the contradictory statements issued by the government itself, any sane person would realize it. Its blind faith at this point.

  23. “Insinuating that the government lied about the timing of the president’s death without any evidence is serious business”

    Serious business? As if anything that comes out of the massive govt propaganda machine is based on any evidence. :-).

    I know you’re not here, but the conspiracy theories about the time and place of death are running wild in all circles, not just the opposition or twitter. Venezuelans love a good chisme, and chavistas are not immune to innuendo and rumors speculating the worst possible scenarios.

    Like yesterday my petare-based-chavista-to-the-marrow-mototaxi daredevil pilot told me the real body is already underground in Sabaneta and there’s a wax model for display only. And that Maduro will impose a permanent “Ley Seca” since his religious beliefs forbid alcohol (???). Yeah, and this didn’t come from Capriles or Globovision, this is stuff circulating there in the pueblo mejmo.

  24. when he died is not important as everyone knows he died in dec , what is important is these chaburros maduros or whatever they are admit to all of the lies , the truth need be told , tell the truth and get on with it , maybe some of these chaburros will see some light

  25. Chavistas are playing on the “cognitive dissonance” phenomenon where, at least for the short term, people are more inclined to accept the most crazy and ridiculous notions in order to hang on to their beliefs. This gives time for military force to lock in the Revolution before people wake up.

    However, the monetary crises that is emerging may be coming too fast for that, and the Chavistas are not very good at getting anything done anyway! I think the situation that’s developing is looking ptontially very good.

    The only thing that worries me is if shortages get to extreme, another Caracazo may occur, and martial law! If there are divisions within the military, my hope would be that the crazy incompetent Chavista wing will lose.

  26. Capriles might have blundered politically with the Kool-Aid drinkers.

    Also, we Venezuelans seem to forgive the departed and their relatives everything and anything. That could cost him.

    But… on the other hand.

    Dissemblers, liars and scammers deserve no better than to be doubted even when they say that the sky is blue. And that’s what the whole gang of high echelon chavistas ARE, including the relatives of the deceased. LIARS AND DISSEMBLERS. They lied, and contradicted themselves as well as the very few facts that they let out. They hid information from Venezuelans. Not morbid details, but the most basic that would have allowed people to get an idea of what was happening, which is that the President was gravely ill and likely to die. They don’t deserve any better than to be doubted. Even in the most basic things. If they find it insulting, they can stuff it.

  27. Compared to saying, as Maduro does, that Chavez was poisoned by the imperialist oligarchy, this (understandable) flight of speculation on Capriles’ part is una chingadera as they say …somewhere….

  28. Well thank God you live in a democracy where you can criticize the opposition candidate without retribution ;). Really, cut capriles some slack

  29. I don’t agree with yo Quico.

    By the way, could a corpse really last that long without bloating and looking like hell? Its been a week and a half!!! So some sort of treatment had to be done on the body.

Leave a Reply