Fraudulent notions of fraud

209

I couldn’t disagree more with Quico’s basic premise in his lazy cat metaphor. Particularly, I dislike this phrase:

“The evidence of fraud, if fraud did happen, is already in the thousands of paper-based hand-tally  reports from the “hot audit” now in the hands of opposition witnesses all over the country.”

That statement … is absolutely false, and it relates to an incredibly limited idea of fraud.

If opposition witnesses are kicked out of voting centers and the doors are locked while the machines are tallying the votes and the audits are being conducted – that’s fraud. It won’t show up in the paper tallies, and it calls for voiding the results from that table.

If opposition witnesses are threatened and intimidated to the point where they have to leave the center, that’s fraud. It won’t show up in the paper tallies, and it calls for voiding the results from that table.

If opposition voters complain about the tables being open after 6 pm with no people in line, and in response they are told that they are waiting for the government to bring in voters, and if they keep complaining they will be shot in the head, that’s fraud. It won’t show up in the paper tallies, and it calls for voiding the results from that table.

If opposition witnesses see chavista activists accompanying voters to the voting machines and instructing them how to vote Maduro (see video above), and upon complaining they receive death threat, that is fraud. It won’t show up in the paper tallies, and it calls for voiding the results from that table.

All of these things happened on Sunday, according to the Capriles camp. There are thousands of stories like these. All of them are being documented, and they will be presented to the CNE.

If these things happen in one or two voting centers, it’s not such a huge deal. Making things right would not change the election results. But what if the sum of votes “affected” by these practices is 500,000? 600,000?

So no, it’s not just the paper tallies. Even if the paper tallies were to show no inconsistencies (I have no idea what they have at this point), there are serious allegations of fraud in this election.

209 COMMENTS

  1. All solid points. It’s not only about a simple recount, it’s about the more than 3,000 irregularities reported on election day. Fraud and illegal actions by the CNE are not exclusively related to a recount alone. Good response blog, Juan.

  2. I have to agree. And if the number of voided votes (either with your methods or simply “nulos”) is greater than the difference between the two candidates, regardless of who is ahead, the results are not statistically significant and therefore not valid. I can’t connect to the CNE website from abroad to check the official numbers, but I believe that this is already the case (or very close to it).

  3. Come on! These incidents happen in all elections, final results were not altered by this type of isolated actions. I am afraid Capriles could end up like Lopez Obrador

    • There is a huge difference Cpc. The MUD had never before called up front fraud like this time. They recognized when they lost against Chavez, because you know what, they did. But not this time, they know they won. And remember that the second time the IFE did open the boxes and counted the votes.

      • The opposition cried fraud in 2004.

        The IFE did not recount 100% of the votes. CNEs random hot audit even at 3% (much less 54%) is enough to prove fraud.

        • Actually, they did recognize the results. Publicly the candidate and representative of the MUD in those elections (Capriles) publicly said so… and yes, it makes sense that if the margin is smaller thee posibillity for the result to be flipped against them with irregularities is more significant, whereas with a big margin the possibility is remote.

  4. Sorry Juan but that only works in a democracy. Black swans can only be invoked in academic circles. If we don’t have the pelos en la malos, we dropped the ball with our witnesses.

  5. You have to add:
    If your boss tells you that you will lose your job if you don’t vote for Maduro, that’s fraud.
    If you are truly afraid you will get caught by capta huellas if you vote Capriles, that’s fraud.
    If your only chance to get a house (if ever) is to go vote RED, that’s fraud.
    If the CNE chairman wear a fascist armband, that’s fraud.
    If voting centers are moved for no other reason than to F*** opposition voter, that’s fraud.
    If the Minister of Defense calls to vote for Maduro that’s fraud.
    Man, can I keep going, and going

    • couldn’t agree more with you. this is where the fraud played a huge role in the results….I don’t think there were any made up votes, or any way to mess with the system

        • I hate dumb@$$es that keep thinking that anyone who votes opposition is considered upper class, thats just stupid… u know there are those whom vote for Venezuela, not for Cubazuela, which is what Chavez designed it as.

      • Actually, th people with the most money in Venezuela right now are people from the government, namely so Diosdado Cabello, president of the PSUV (socialist party) is one of the wealthiest men in the country, and only acquired such wealth since being in the government (does the word “corruption” come to mind?). Yes there has always been corruption before this government, but now there are two new variables at play:
        1) They don’t even need to hide it, because by controlling all of the State´s powers (Judicial included) who has the means for prosecuting them? that’s why power-independency is vital in a democracy, to keep all others in check.
        2) Now they repeatedly claim “being rich is wrong” and they themselves are, also claiming to be pro social equality and against capitalism (word hypocrisy comes to mind)

  6. Great post, I absolutely agree, I was telling a Colombian friend how difficult it will be to prove fraud because the papeletas tally won’t show all the irregularities that Juan is mentioning, that extend from the campaign abuses, irregularities in voting centers and intimidation.

  7. I agree, Juan, but the Comando Simón Bolívar is still pretty confident that they have the evidence of having won the election. Even ignoring these abuses.

    • That’s not completely true: the 14-A night, they had 92% of the actas, and with those actas, we were up 2%. Unfortunately, those remaining 8% actas from, let’s just say “suspicious” centers changed the results. We have the (impossible) task to prove that that remaining 8% centers incurred in the kind of fraud described above in order to void those votes

        • capriles.tv always says its En Vivo they should fix that….it might be the only way to transmit his message once Globo is rojo rojito

          • “En Vivo” means the program was recorded live (cameras nonstop from beginning to end, recording in real time). You might be confused with “Directo”, which means that what you’re seeing is happening and being broadcast at the same time. Programs can be “En Vivo” and broadcast later, or can be “En Vivo y Directo”, being broadcast as they take place.

          • That’s really interesting, I did not know that!

            In Spanish class that is what we would call a “false friend” or cognado falso 🙂

          • And the old timers amongst us will remember “En Vivo, Directo, Via Satelite” was a sign of Awesome Events!

  8. The thing is that this is not the first time these things have happened and we did not demanded a recount and asked these votes not to be counted when it did, because we thought they did not make a difference and the denouncing it would discourage people from voting . (I´m not criticizing the MUD for doing this, but it was a decision that had its consequences and we are experiencing them now)

    Thus, the evidence to prove a fraud that we need is tally reports or by proving that people who were not registered to vote, nevertheless voted on Sunday.

      • That’s not a valid argument. If these things happened before, it might not have been worth it to ask for a repeat if the difference was 1.5 million votes. But if the difference is 250 thousand, it makes all the difference in the world.

          • There is a point about that.
            I have also said many times we should have made formal denunciation of illegal wire-tapping, of Chávez’s accusations about assassination attempts and so much more.
            People looked at me as if I were asking too much.

            But still: it’s never too late to start demanding.

          • On principle, I completely agree with Juan, these practices are fraudulent and antidemocratic and seriously question the notion of democracy.
            I´m not saying that we should have thought this before, it was a strategic decision made at the time, but when we decided to do it, we kind of knew than in case of a close election we weren’t going to be able to use it.
            I guess mi point is that to built a case of fraud that resonates besides the half of the country that is already convinced of that we need more than this.

          • * I guess mi point is that to built a case of fraud that resonates with other people besides the half of the country that is already convinced of that, we need more than this.

          • I think the point is that Capriles is using it. Alek Boyd thinks it’s stupid of Capriles, it probably is, he won’t be recognized by the international community, but for Capriles’ supporters it needed to be done. Get it done and over with. The reality is that the fraud within Venezuelan elections had to be called out eventually. Putting it off and putting it off forever would result, ultimately, in Venezuelan democracy, what is left, deteriorating into nothingness.

  9. Commenters:
    Let’s vote who’s right, Quico or Juan Cristobal?
    The CNE would count our ballots. I know who would win and I am screaming “fraud” before we have even voted.

  10. Shit is going to hit the fan. Seems certain that they are going to arrest Capriles tomorrow morning… hitting pans will get you arrested. Even if you have more than 7 million people behind you. The agressor is not Capriles. It is the rotten cesspool they call ‘government’

  11. Juan, por fin se habla claro respecto al fraude en este blog.

    Fradu happens even before election day, during election day (your comments) and after election day ( no escrutinio, no auditorias, hurried up proclamacion)….

    Add the voter franchise stink and the nationalizations scam, add the identification cards shenanigans and stir all with the real issue here, motive.

    Do you think chavista aparatiks will stand up to open accountability after stealing dry trillions of dollars of oil bonanza?

    El sistema electoral venezolano ie un gran fraude, punto. That is why the oficialismo can not stand a readl escrutinio, even less with the little margin realized in sunday’s election.

  12. Juan,

    I agree with you as well. I thin any democrat would agree with you, just like we consider democracy is not just about elections – even fair elections – but about the rule of law.

  13. It was too close to call.
    Schedule a peaceful playoff for new round of votes.
    Winner becomes prez, runner up will be VicePrez

  14. I agree.

    You guys might want to take a deep breath and tone it down on the criticism of each other though, because we need you here, and you are providing very important coverage. That goes for readers as well, myself included. We get stressed and we lash out, which is easy to do over the internet. Cumbaya folks. Just a suggestion.

  15. Ciudadano, tiene razon pero va preso.

    Juan, I feel that if the sum of the votes in the actas the opposition has say Capriles won and the sum does not match the CNE numbers there is a case. Otherwise this is all a waste.

    Who is going to support the opposition to void votes counted under the circumstances you describe? What is Capriles end game? Is it to have another presidential election under better terms? Is it to set better terms for future elections?

    • I think that votes should be voided if there is reason for them to be voided. Clearly, there is reason for them to be voided.

  16. We’re muddying the waters here folks… As I see it, the danger becomes that at this point, when we cry foul about all these irregularities without any specific, rock solid evidence AND exact effect on the vote count, the numerous objections become diluted and lose traction.
    IMHO, unless they have solid proof with direct, significant incongruence with the “official” results (in the way of tallies ‘actas’ that don’t jive with the official result) they’re dead in the water. In part, I think this is what FT was expounding in his previous post.

    • If it weren’t a big deal, the government could easily demonstrate that the oppo is wrong, destroying it’s credibility. But since they take that so seriously, that can only mean one thing.

      If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and walks like a duck…

    • “As I see it, the danger becomes that at this point, when we cry foul about all these irregularities without any specific, rock solid evidence AND exact effect on the vote count, the numerous objections become diluted and lose traction.”

      Why? Just because? I must have missed the part about the law where it says “the numbers are all that matters, everything is else is unimportant.”

      It’s an absurd position, frankly.

      • All things being equal, yes, that is an absurd notion. In a free and democratic electoral system, with independent institutions every irregularity should and would be noted and prosecuted under the rule of law.
        However, we all recognize that things are not equal in Venezuela. Far from it. Therefore, judging from EVERYTHING that has happened in the last 14-15 years, it seems that the threshold for an event to be identified as illegal, inappropriate or impermissible and for action to be taken against it or correct it by existing instituations seems incredibly high, if it even exists at all.
        Going back to what you wrote, it’s not that everything else is unimportant. Perhaps I wasn’t clear. I’m not saying we shouldn’t raise objections to all of the fraudulent behavior and events that have occurred during this election. I just worry that if we’re not focused on what is the most relevant from this point forward support for our objections will erode in the current climate.

        By the way, you and FT do a fantastic job writing, informing and keeping spirited debate alive. Many thanks to you and the newer contributors.

    • So that is why you would go in full cadena….. dude we are way past this point. Chavismo, perdone facismo, is showing its true colors. El pueble esta arrecho. Con o sin capriles

    • No way, there were many irregularities during election day plus such a small margin calls for a complete count of the votes. Their behaviour these days only adds to the suspicion that something fishy really happened. The solution is easy: let’s count all the votes.

    • Over 3 million votes have been affected by the 5,000+ denounced irregularities. The final difference was less than 250,000 votes. You do the math.

      Also, there is solid evidence; i.e. there were more votes in some centers than people voting. Maduro actually had more votes than Chavez himself in over 1,000 centers (something not even the chavistas believe), even doubling Chavez’s tally in many of those centers. Coincidentally, those centers were the ones from which the opposition witnesses were removed by force.

  17. Thank you, Juan, for not being a lazy thinker, and for having the gumption to consider issues that are thick in the air.

    Blaming Ana María Fernandez for Capriles’s loss = -10 *
    Considering the versatility of the F-word = + 20

    *
    On 96.3 FM (Toronto), on Sunday, April 14, at 2 pm, the newscaster spoke about “the General” in reference to Chávez, the “The American-backed opposition”, and the expectation of a Maduro victory (“Maduro is widely considered to win”).

    VIO back in business and stronger than ever…

    • Holy frag!! It’s not just that, apparently they are in full pillage mode over there!!

      Diario La Región ‏@laregionweb 1h
      URGENTE// Sujetos con camisas rojas prenden candela a sede de AD en #LTQ http://pic.twitter.com/EYXPc8dQ (vía @dmurolo)

      Diario La Región ‏@laregionweb 48min
      Hay, en este momento, disturbios en Higuertote. Comerciantes cierran Santa Marias en el centro (vía @elsabonin)

      Diario La Región ‏@laregionweb 43min
      AHORA// Motorizados saquean varias panaderías en Los Teques

      Diario La Región ‏@laregionweb 33min
      En la heladería Bravikar robaron a los clientes y destruyeron las mesas, todos los atacantes tenían camisas del oficialismo (vía @litozz)

      Diario La Región ‏@laregionweb 31min
      AHORA// Lanzan bombas molotov a sede de Avance desde la calle Páez

      Diario La Región ‏@laregionweb 30min
      Dueños de Burger House en Los Teques se vieron obligados a cerrar tras amenaza de quemarles el negocio #LTQ (vía @Litozz)

      Diario La Región ‏@laregionweb 13min
      AUXILIOOOO ATACAN NUESTRA SEDE CON BOMBAS MOLOTOV

  18. This is a completely stupid argument Juan, and you should know that. The reason is that it is impossible to prove one way or the other. You can list thousands and thousands of separate incidents, with videos or photos, etc. But it is impossible to know if those incidents really had a significant impact on the outcome or not.

    The only way you can make a claim like this about an election is with solid proof. If you can show that 250,000 different Capriles voters that wanted to vote were not permitted to vote. Until you can do that, you do not have proof of anything.

    In other words, your whole “fraud” theory doesn’t pass even the most basic precepts of scientific theory: FALSIFIABILITY.

        • 286 centers did not allow opposition witnesses, accounting to 700k votes. This is a big deal. Don’t worry, the CNE won’t investigate.

          • No, Capriles CLAIMS that 286 centers did not allow witnesses. Do you really believe that could have happened without even ONE of those witnesses talking to the media, without Globovision showing even ONE case of this on TV, or talking to even ONE of those witnesses about what happened?

            If you believe a claim like that without ANY evidence to back it up, what exactly are you NOT capable of believing? If Capriles told you that Maduro is really an alien from Mars would you believe that too?

          • Hey GAC,

            Speaking of unsubstantiated claims, where are the 6 mercenaries that were supposedly going to be trotted out in front of the country? Where is the proof that the late comandante-presidente was given cancer? Where is the proof that people are somehow sabotaging the electrical system? Where is the proof that the CIA and the US are footing the bill for and giving orders to Capriles?

            Do you really want me to go on?

          • The MUD has been in non-confrontational mode for years when it comes to electoral politics GAC, and you KNOW it. They wouldn’t have done it DURING THE COUNT because they wanted to get the voted COUNTED. However, the list of irregularities were still tallied and observed.

          • And where are those witnesses now? You know, the ones who had a gun pointed at them and were forced out of the voting centers… There weren’t any witnesses of this happening almost 300 times in one afternoon?

          • Presumably Capriles has a list and the CNE will have to look over the complaints. Here’s where you don’t have to worry because like in the US when fraud is alleged, no one actually goes deep to look in to it (it’d make the electioneers in those instances look bad if not get them in trouble). In the US it takes months to do said investigations and they’re not always resolved. The CNE, being a central authority, can easily dismiss them and people like you will gleefully say nothing happened.

            Your assertion is as if Capriles’ number for fraudulent polling stations comes out of thin air. I doubt it is some random number he picked out of then air. Then, of course, you can say that all the witnesses are lying, and so on and so forth. The circular reasoning can go on forever. What is paramount is that the CNE actually investigate. The false reports can be checked. If there’s no evidence or if the reports aren’t believable, they can be dismissed. However, we have precedent for this sort of thing in Latin America in the past. In the 2006 Mexico elections Andrés Manuel López Obrador called for a recount. The Mexican government went over all the fraudulent claims, and found that 9.2% of the districts had justified claims of fraud. In the end 6% of the vote was annulled because of said fraud.

            Be happy. Tibi is NOT going to investigate. She’ll smile in that truly despicable way she smiles and say “Nothing can be done, these are false allegations, have a nice day.” Why you seemed to be worried, I dunno. Maybe you have a guilty conscious because you know it’s bullshit and are still reeling from the chavistas losing 10 points in the elections.

          • Yes JC,

            Nearly 300 separate incidents in which opposition witnesses were forced out of voting centers at gun point, and NOT ONE single witness has come forward to claim they saw this happening???? But it supposedly happened 286 times… Yeah right!!!

          • Not every incident was at gunpoint. Perhaps you should read the pamphlet that Capriles released. It’s possible that the gunpoint allegations were responded with calls to the police, I don’t have that information. The witnesses would have the police reports, however. And local papers could’ve reported it. I don’t have access to the local papers or news or blogs in that vein, and I can’t trust ND or other forums for the information.

            What’s important is that it’s been alleged and the CNE should look in to it, regardless as to whether it’s been reported in the news or whether witnesses have come forward. I do not see why Capriles would make the number up out of thin air.

          • BTW, there was one person who posted on CC about having actas stolen from them and how opposition witnesses weren’t allowed to observe (they claimed they used a gimmick whereby “polling workers were chosen first” and if there was room opposition observers could watch the count). That’s a witness. Ask CC to get a hold of that guy. Or go comment on his comment and try to get a hold of him. I have seen these reports on forums but as I said I don’t know if they’re true or not, we need the CNE to investigate the reports as opposed to making up conspiracy theories that it’s all fake.

    • In other words, if your theory can’t be falsified, it’s pseudoscience, and its worthless.

      Try to build an actual argument that can be backed up with actual evidence, not random conjectures.

      • “Try to build an actual argument that can be backed up with actual evidence”

        Totally agree, and that’s why the 100% audit must happen, because it would be the actual evidence that will support the arguments of one or the other side 🙂

    • Please.. I am really open minded and stuff but can somebody just block this clue guy?! Or autotranslate his posts in arabic?

    • So, the state announces a result. No proof, just their say-so. And so we ask to see the evidence; the state says no, and races to confirm the person they prefer. You claim we need “falsifiability”. For the purposes of “scientific theory” then, our demand is totally justified. Your position is: if the state can successfully hide the facts, then their candidate cannot be questioned. As with so much of Chavismo, this amounts to state-worship and authoritarianism.

      • The State even declared that the voting system worked “perfectly” (Lucena, yesterday), before it has even seen Capriles’ 3000 complaints. There is no pretense to independence.

    • Let me get this straight: Are you saying that as long as all the abuses and atropellos do not have a significant impact on the outcome of the election, they are not proof of a fraudulent process and are simply irrelevant?

      It’s like a girl who got pregnant by a rapist. You would say that, as long as no DNA tests are carried on the kid and the father, no testimonies, videos, sound recordings or any other proof of rape are not valid to accuse the culprit of rape.

      Please, get a clue.

  19. There’s a danger in the opposition’s complaints being too varied and diffuse. Better to focus laserlike on one point: Maduro promised an audit of the vote, and now he’s reneging.

  20. JCN: the things you list are not fraud. They are actions to gain opportunity to commit fraud, which is not the same thing.

    If I was running such an operation, I would have my minions stage many such actions without tampering, just to distract the opposition from other tampering. That is, provoke the opposition into fighting for recounts of sites where the recount will exactly confirm the original count, thereby discrediting the opposition.

    Also, I suspect that some of the exclusion of oppo observers was just bullying for its own sake, not necessarily protection of fraud. Even “honest” chavistas, who think they don’t have to steal votes, have been taught to despise the oppos as criminals. And I suspect that some oppo observers are activists with a lot of venom toward chavistas and constantly question every action (sometimes wrongly). So there were probably cases where the chavistas ejected observers (which of course they shouldn’t) out of bad temper and a false idea of authority, rather than intent to steal votes.

    So it is dangerous to assert that every such instance is necessarily a case of substantive fraud.

    (Voter “assistance” is not fraud, either – it is coercion.)

    • Rich Rostrom, you’re wrong. Fraud:

      1. deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage.

      2. a particular instance of such deceit or trickery: mail fraud; election frauds.

      3. any deception, trickery, or humbug: That diet book is a fraud and a waste of time.

      4. a person who makes deceitful pretenses; sham; poseur.

      [ dictionary.com ]

      • When chavistas illegally exclude oppo observers from monitoring tallies and audits, that is not fraud, it is establishing the opportunity for fraud. By itself, it does not affect the returns.

        The fraud may happen, and almost certainly does – but the previous illegal actions prevent it from being observed. What has been observed is not the fraud itself.

        The chavistas are conducting a “defense in depth”. They block access to tallies and audits, obstruct collection of actas, discourage deployment of oppo observers. Behind this are fiddled counts, fraudulent votes, destroyed and damaged ballots. Over everything, the cloud of misleading “news” reports. Where is the actual cheating? Somewhere inside, but not everywhere. And most likely, lots of small distributed frauds, so that even when some instance is discovered, it can be dismissed as unimportant.

        • Rich Rostrom, you don’t seem to be countering the definition of fraud that I provided, you seem to be restating your previous argument. Pulling witnesses out from their observation positions IS the fraud. It’s not that they pulled them out to THEN be able to commit the *numerical* fraud. Pulling them out is part of the trickery, therefore part of the fraud.

          Another example, pressuring a voter to vote one way or another IS fraudulent, if under the guise of fairness. And that is the key: fairness. A fraud is any action that gains “some unfair or dishonest advantage” under the guise of the contrary.

          • Rich Rostrom, now that I think of it, even by your definition, when a person is coerced into voting a different way than he may otherwise vote, it is fraud because at that very moment vote count is affected in a false way.

  21. Holy mamma!! He has proof!

    He showed an acta and a vote tally and they don’t match, on one it said the center had around 500 voters and the other one said that around 700 votes were cast!

      • Capriles showed a bunch of pretty pieces of paper with conjectures printed on them. I can make those on my computer too. That’s not proof.

      • clue clux clan
        wrap your head over ‘intent’

        A person intends a consequence they foresee that it will happen if the given series of acts or omissions continue, and desires it to happen. The most serious level of culpability, justifying the most serious levels of punishment, is achieved when both these components are actually present in the accused’s mind (a “subjective” test). A person who plans and executes a crime is considered, rightly or wrongly, a more serious danger to the public than one who acts spontaneously

        cne & maduro colluded … that intent will be proof enough

    • He speciffically said that the government wanted another april 11th and he wasnt going to give them that satisfaction.

      Wow, he is calling al pan pan y al vino vino

  22. Can someone summarize…my connection was lost…How did Capriles come across?

    My contact said he is confident that a recount will show a Capriles win, which is why they have been pushing for the audit. Did Capriles go beyond just asking for an audit of cast votes??

    • He is reversing, calling for no protest tomorrow. The only form of protest he is petitioning from his followers is a cacerolazo, which is the banging of iron pans.
      He got specific (with actual numbers) when summarizing the incidents in various voting centers on Sunday.

    • He showed evidence of irregularities in some voting centers, and gave specific numbers about how many votes could be affected.

      The most shocking part (at least for me) was when he pulled a machine tally in which was stated that in that center there were around 500 voters, then he pulled the audit act of that center which showed over 700 votes cast. Then he showed a list of centers which had irregularities and called again for a 100% audit.

      Later he called off the march for tomorrow, because the government wanteed another 11th of april and he wasnt going to give that to them.

      He called for peace and insisted on the audit and be peaceful and patient.

        • agree. I’m impressed by how Capriles is taking ownership of statesmanship, not forgetting that if he were the leader of the country, he’d be speaking for ALL Venezuelans, tanto los adeptos al chamadurismo, como los opositores de tal. Capriles keeps growing and growing in stature, while Maduro projects locura.

  23. Acta de de escrutionio con menos electores que la constancia de verifiacion ciudadna, que quiere decir, quevotaron mas personas.
    This is a transcript in spanish of what capriles said: <>

    “Que quiere decir todo esto? Es que el voto, el papel, el acta de escrutinio y el cuadernode votacion, necesitas los tres elementos y que puedas cotejar los tres elementos, porque cunado tu revises el cuaderno de votacion, ahi empieza a salir muchas cosas, porque el cuaderno de votacion tiene que tener la misma cantidad de electores que firmaron y pusieron su huella que la caja y que el acta de escrutinio, como nosotros hemos visto que hay centros donde hubo votos afectados y tenemos todo lo que significa <> en los centros donde nos retiraron nuestros testigos, son 286 centros… en algunos casos a punta de pistola, esos 286 centros afectados tenian derecho a votar mas de 700000 votantes, el no tener un testigo me lleva ademas a algo que yo creo, y para eso son las auditorias, nadie puede comerse el cuento de estos 1176 centros donde maduro saco mas votos que le presidente chavez y el resultado electoral nacional dice claramente que no fue asi, entocnes donde tu me quitas un testigo, me lo sacas a punta de pistola, proablemente y ahi e slo que me determina el cuaderno de votacion, ahi votaron electores que no estuvieron ahi, como tamien tenemos centros donde llegan personas con 200 cedulas, tenemos registros fotograficos, entocnes, que me permite a mi hacer una auditoria al cuaderno de votacion? vamos a ver quien fimro ahi, vamos a ver la huella, queremos que sea transparente, porque el gobierno dijo que si al principio y luego dijo que no, que paso?”

  24. Acta de de escrutionio con menos electores que la constancia de verifiacion ciudadna, que quiere decir, quevotaron mas personas.
    This is a transcript in spanish of what capriles said:

    “Que quiere decir todo esto? Es que el voto, el papel, el acta de escrutinio y el cuadernode votacion, necesitas los tres elementos y que puedas cotejar los tres elementos, porque cunado tu revises el cuaderno de votacion, ahi empieza a salir muchas cosas, porque el cuaderno de votacion tiene que tener la misma cantidad de electores que firmaron y pusieron su huella que la caja y que el acta de escrutinio, como nosotros hemos visto que hay centros donde hubo votos afectados y tenemos todo lo que significa en los centros donde nos retiraron nuestros testigos, son 286 centros… en algunos casos a punta de pistola, esos 286 centros afectados tenian derecho a votar mas de 700000 votantes, el no tener un testigo me lleva ademas a algo que yo creo, y para eso son las auditorias, nadie puede comerse el cuento de estos 1176 centros donde maduro saco mas votos que le presidente chavez y el resultado electoral nacional dice claramente que no fue asi, entocnes donde tu me quitas un testigo, me lo sacas a punta de pistola, proablemente y ahi e slo que me determina el cuaderno de votacion, ahi votaron electores que no estuvieron ahi, como tamien tenemos centros donde llegan personas con 200 cedulas, tenemos registros fotograficos, entocnes, que me permite a mi hacer una auditoria al cuaderno de votacion? vamos a ver quien fimro ahi, vamos a ver la huella, queremos que sea transparente, porque el gobierno dijo que si al principio y luego dijo que no, que paso?”

  25. Acta de de escrutionio con menos electores que la constancia de verifiacion ciudadna, que quiere decir, quevotaron mas personas.
    This is a transcript in spanish of what capriles said: (sorry for the typos and triple posting, I had some notes that didnt appear ecause they were between “>” signs, please delete the previous two posts if you consider)

    “Que quiere decir todo esto? Es que el voto, el papel, el acta de escrutinio y el cuadernode votacion, necesitas los tres elementos y que puedas cotejar los tres elementos, porque cunado tu revises el cuaderno de votacion, ahi empieza a salir muchas cosas, porque el cuaderno de votacion tiene que tener la misma cantidad de electores que firmaron y pusieron su huella que la caja y que el acta de escrutinio, como nosotros hemos visto que hay centros donde hubo votos afectados y tenemos todo lo que significa (shows papers) en los centros donde nos retiraron nuestros testigos, son 286 centros… en algunos casos a punta de pistola, esos 286 centros afectados tenian derecho a votar mas de 700000 votantes, el no tener un testigo me lleva ademas a algo que yo creo, y para eso son las auditorias, nadie puede comerse el cuento de estos 1176 centros donde maduro saco mas votos que le presidente chavez y el resultado electoral nacional dice claramente que no fue asi, entocnes donde tu me quitas un testigo, me lo sacas a punta de pistola, proablemente y ahi e slo que me determina el cuaderno de votacion, ahi votaron electores que no estuvieron ahi, como tamien tenemos centros donde llegan personas con 200 cedulas, tenemos registros fotograficos, entocnes, que me permite a mi hacer una auditoria al cuaderno de votacion? vamos a ver quien fimro ahi, vamos a ver la huella, queremos que sea transparente, porque el gobierno dijo que si al principio y luego dijo que no, que paso?”

  26. I’m on Quico’s camp here. Protesting voto asistido or motorizados is like protesting the use of government funds or public employees being pressured into voting for Maduro. Yes its unfair and wrong but, we knew this was the game we were playing. Weather or not its worth it to protest over it depends on the trade off (e.g. what do you loose by doing it). A very different thing is to fight over the fact that the actas count from the MUD don’t match the total tally. And to my mind, going in all-out peo de barrio is only justified if they flat-out stole the election. If not we run the risk of loosing the huge mountain of political capital we built this weekend. Even worst what if you give Maduro a good excuse to throw Capriles into Jail?

  27. Le preguntan:

    “Gano las elecciones o duda los resultados? cuanta ventaja considera que tiene?”

    He answers:

    Cuando tu me preguntas flavia, por el tema del resultado, visto lo que hemos visto, nosotros creemos que ganamos las elecciones, cuando nosotros vemos todo lo que son los votos afectados y que permita la auditoria ver, porque que pasa flavia, cada mesa donde haya una irregularidad, se anula el proceso en esa mesa, se anula, eso dice la ley, cuando usted detecta una irregularidad en un centro de votacion, en ese centro de votacion queda anulado el proceso, que se dee hacer? en ese centro se tiene que celerar de nuevo un proceso electoral. No es nuevo en venezuela, como fue el caso de liborio en amazonas y otros alcaldes donde se anulo el proceso en cetros donde huo irregularidades y se vuelve a convocar. Cuando uno ve la magnitud de los votos, solamente en el tema de lo centros donde sacaron nuestros testigos, la pregunta flavia, es cuanl huiera sido el resultado?

    Le preguntan
    “COn esas informaciones, que ventaja dentrian?”

    “Nosotros teniamos nuestras proyecciones pero cunado vemos los votos que estan involucrados vemos un proceso alterado, nosotros teniamos nuestras proyeciones y vemos una ligera ventaja a nuestro favor, pero cuando vemos la lista de irregularidades, vemos que tenemos un resultado real mayor. Cuanto es la ventaja? ueno para eso es el reconteo, para ver que esta irregular, se anula y se obtiene el resultado final”

  28. I hope south america takes a new approach to Maduro, it is really a coup, more votes than electors, and Maduro getting 10times as much votes as Chávez in some places, hmm, if that is not enough… Actually I think the same has happened the other times, but anyway, this is not going to get through…

  29. capriles.tv only accesible thru proxy, but it doesn’t stream video, so, it’s basically like having nothing.

    this guy is incredible… three cadenas in less than 12 hours

    #WINNING

  30. Ok, let’s summarize:

    1) Close to 3million votes that are prone to be nulled. And let’s say this is the MINOR issue.
    2) Incredibly HASTY proclamation of a new president under dubious conditions.
    3) Hard evidence of irregularities between the different verification elements.
    4) The president of the national assembly denying derecho de palabra to whoever deputy does not recognize maduro as the president
    5) maduro’s cadenas to block capriles’ transmisions
    6) self-destruction of PSUV/Mercal/CDI property to accusse the opposition.
    7) whole government violent attitude

    Again: if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck…

  31. Let me tell you great post!!! but I am exhausted. And I am in the Imperio. Watching Capriles in the international press conference. Interrupted by an hysterical Maduro in a cadena. Back to Capriles! Oh, back to hysterical Maduro, but back again to Capriles……By the way, Capriles said that they calculate that about 1 million votes could be voided because of the irregularities that they have recorded or with proof! Wow, what woul normal citizens call that

  32. This is recent, an interview today with Ocariz:

    “Explicó en Exitos de Unión Radio, que en 72 horas se recogieron todas las actas del país, “en un esfuerzo organizativo recogimos todas las actas del país, aparte de las actas de auditoría. En menos de 72 horas se entregará la impugnación y el reconteo de los votos al CNE, todo en 72 horas y con argumentos sólidos”.”

    Maybe that’s why they haven’t said anything “meaty” yet

    http://www.lapatilla.com/site/2013/04/17/ocariz-ofrece-detalles-sobre-la-conversacion-telefonica-entre-capriles-a-maduro/

  33. Everybody seems to agree on this… allow me to explain my point of view:
    it is true that asking for a recount represents a very simplistic way of claiming “fraud” and all other ways presented here are completely valid… but they’re harder to prove… so what’s the smart move here?
    First, ask for a recount IF and ONLY IF you do have some evidence of fraud when adding up the votes. If all parties come to an agreement (Candidates + CNE, and they all did) it should not be a problem to do so, would it?. In the meantime you keep collecting any other evidence of fraud through any means available (which has also been done, but it takes time), such as the ones presented in the post. But you can’t limit yourself to one approach, and try to pursuit all of them, which is also being done.

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